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From: "Jacques, Sare"
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: Please help show these men whats up
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:56:09 -0500
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Hey everyone....
I am hoping someone can help me out. I got into a discussion last night
with a few men (granted they had had a little bit to drink and it might not
have been the best timing, but...) We got into a discussion of women in
sports - they were showing the D1 womens basketball player that just broke
the all time scoring record on tv - and one of the men made the comment that
he could beat her in a one on one - well..that subject quickly moved to
hockey and the comment was made that a D3 mens club team could beat the
womens olympic team.
It took quite a bit of restraint to keep from jumping out of my seat and
showing the guy where he should stuff that comment. But I counted to 10 and
then calmly explained that perhaps he had not been following womens hockey
that closely and that these women are not only huge and in amazing shape -
but that they are highly skilled and would quite easily show a mens club
hockey team whats up.
So...Im hoping SOMEONE out there can help me out. The guys promised to
retract their comments (and buy me a few beers) if I could show them some
proof that the womens olympic team could beat a men's team.
Does someone, anyone have any kind of proof? Or any kind of information
about a womens team beating a mens team of the same level (at any level,
really)
Please help. I couldnt sleep last night I was so angry. I was ready to
take them out to the pond and drop the gloves.
You can reply to this or email me at: email@hidden
Thanks so much everyone!
Sare'
#4 Mass Nighthawks B
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Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:14:13 -0600
From: "Karen Harker"
To:
Subject: Re: Please help show these men whats up
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You must first ensure that the teams would be playing by the same rules, most obvious being no checking. While there are rather large and well built women on the team, there are even larger and more well-built men, particularly in the higher divisions. This size difference could make a checking game rather one-sided.
That being said, you may also want to take into account upper-body strength differences. There are obvious differences there, which will affect speed and power of shots, as well as ability to push around players.
The women's team may have advantages of speed (I imagine less differences in lower body strength) and skill (outcome of years of playing without checking). Would these advantages make up the differences noted above? I don't know.
It may be impossible to come up with any proof that will be acceptable to the group. And then again, there may be no proof....;)
Karen Harker
>>> "Jacques, Sare" 3/2/01 7:56:09 AM >>>
Hey everyone....
I am hoping someone can help me out. I got into a discussion last night
with a few men (granted they had had a little bit to drink and it might not
have been the best timing, but...) We got into a discussion of women in
sports - they were showing the D1 womens basketball player that just broke
the all time scoring record on tv - and one of the men made the comment that
he could beat her in a one on one - well..that subject quickly moved to
hockey and the comment was made that a D3 mens club team could beat the
womens olympic team.
It took quite a bit of restraint to keep from jumping out of my seat and
showing the guy where he should stuff that comment. But I counted to 10 and
then calmly explained that perhaps he had not been following womens hockey
that closely and that these women are not only huge and in amazing shape -
but that they are highly skilled and would quite easily show a mens club
hockey team whats up.
So...Im hoping SOMEONE out there can help me out. The guys promised to
retract their comments (and buy me a few beers) if I could show them some
proof that the womens olympic team could beat a men's team.
Does someone, anyone have any kind of proof? Or any kind of information
about a womens team beating a mens team of the same level (at any level,
really)
Please help. I couldnt sleep last night I was so angry. I was ready to
take them out to the pond and drop the gloves.
You can reply to this or email me at: email@hidden
Thanks so much everyone!
Sare'
#4 Mass Nighthawks B
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 3:04 PM
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_______________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:11:12 -0500
To: "Jacques, Sare"
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: Please help show these men whats up
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A man's team, or a man's olympic team? I think that both the
Canadian and US Olympic hockey teams have faced men's teams and won.
They were college teams and I cannot remember who or where. I even
think there was a loss or two, but there was definitely a win or two.
Riding and I think shooting and archery are not segregated and men
are not the only winners Last Olympics a female police officer from
the US won the hand gun shooting. (Probably aggravated by cousins of
your friends) In riding you get your chance of the horse or the
rider being female.
And of not much note, in the early '60's, my brother held the
Canadian junior mile record. He was in highschool at the time. Last
year, an 8th grade girl in my daughter's school ran the mile faster!
And she wasn't even the top runner in the area.
It isn't just hockey and size does not always matter. Tell those
boys to ante up.
Of course, if there was an Olympic Bragging Team, we know who would win.
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Message-ID: <001201c0a335$b03f3360$52196fcf@staff>
From: "Dave Clausen"
To: "Jacques, Sare" ,
References: <551EABEDC238D411977600062938A64601516C40@KMAIL1>
Subject: Re: Please help show these men whats up
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:27:29 -0500
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Sare,
I believe that the Women's National Team schedules games or scrimmages vs.
male opponents. With a record that is something like 35-1-2 (against
women's teams) I believe they do this in order to find some games where
there goalies are challenged. I guess you could answer your question by
finding out the results of some of these games. Also you and friends need
to clear up what kind of club teams you are talking about. There is huge
range of ability at the club level.
Well, just a little food for thought.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacques, Sare"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: Please help show these men whats up
> Hey everyone....
>
> I am hoping someone can help me out. I got into a discussion last night
> with a few men (granted they had had a little bit to drink and it might
not
> have been the best timing, but...) We got into a discussion of women in
> sports - they were showing the D1 womens basketball player that just broke
> the all time scoring record on tv - and one of the men made the comment
that
> he could beat her in a one on one - well..that subject quickly moved to
> hockey and the comment was made that a D3 mens club team could beat the
> womens olympic team.
>
> It took quite a bit of restraint to keep from jumping out of my seat and
> showing the guy where he should stuff that comment. But I counted to 10
and
> then calmly explained that perhaps he had not been following womens hockey
> that closely and that these women are not only huge and in amazing shape -
> but that they are highly skilled and would quite easily show a mens club
> hockey team whats up.
>
> So...Im hoping SOMEONE out there can help me out. The guys promised to
> retract their comments (and buy me a few beers) if I could show them some
> proof that the womens olympic team could beat a men's team.
>
> Does someone, anyone have any kind of proof? Or any kind of information
> about a womens team beating a mens team of the same level (at any level,
> really)
>
> Please help. I couldnt sleep last night I was so angry. I was ready to
> take them out to the pond and drop the gloves.
>
> You can reply to this or email me at: email@hidden
>
> Thanks so much everyone!
>
> Sare'
> #4 Mass Nighthawks B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email@hidden
> [mailto:email@hidden]
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 3:04 PM
> To: email@hidden
> Subject: women-in-hockey digest, Vol 1 #194 - 10 msgs
>
>
> Send women-in-hockey mailing list submissions to
> email@hidden
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> email@hidden
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> email@hidden
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of women-in-hockey digest..."
> _______________________________________________
> women-in-hockey mailing list
> email@hidden
> http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
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Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:18:01 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:16:46 -0500
From: Linda M
Subject: showing men up
To: WOMENhockey
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Message text written by "Karen Harker"
>
It may be impossible to come up with any proof that will be acceptable to
the group. And then again, there may be no proof....;)
<
I have no proof of anything whatsoever on this score... I am just a duffer
playing rec hockey. But I am reminded of one of my proudest days in
amateur hockey, and I only wish a similar incident could happen to ALL
these men, and men like them everywhere .
I play womens senior rec hockey and mens rec hockey. My mens league - 6
teams - includes two women goalies and two of us skating out, total in 6
teams. Most of the guys are pretty good about us few gals, we skate our
shifts, and that's that. However there is that one horrible team (which
I hate) - a team of goons, a team which prides itself "we don't have any
women and we never will", a team which tries to hurt you, and a team which
unfortunately usually wins. These guys are also complete boors in the bar
post game. They are everything that hockey's bad reputation is all about,
on and off ice. You can tell how much I love them.
One fine day in spring league... we had a sub. A women from a local D1
college team. She walzed in there, played starting center, and proceeded
to make complete fools of this team. The final score was 7-1 and she
scored 6 of them, often unassisted. They were so mad! They were
perfectly willing to kill her on ice, regardless of the amateur league no
check rules, but as she pointed out on the bench with a small smile "to hit
me... they have to CATCH me first". They never did. To add insult to
injury, the woman is drop dead pretty, long haired blonde, and about 19
years old.
I have never seen a team so thoroughly shut up.
And in defense of some men, I was equally happy to see my team of middle
aged guys cheering her, in awe and camaraderie, verrrrry glad to have her
around, and no sexist commentary at all.
I hope such an incident happens to your acquaintances from the bar - and
you are there to watch, or better yet, to skate!
- Linda Meichle
#12
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Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:33:21 -0800
From: "Megan B. Edwards"
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This is an awesome story. I'm smiling still.
Linda M wrote:
> One fine day in spring league... we had a sub. A women from a local D1
> college team. She walzed in there, played starting center, and proceeded
> to make complete fools of this team. The final score was 7-1 and she
> scored 6 of them, often unassisted. They were so mad! They were
> perfectly willing to kill her on ice, regardless of the amateur league no
> check rules, but as she pointed out on the bench with a small smile "to hit
> me... they have to CATCH me first". They never did. To add insult to
> injury, the woman is drop dead pretty, long haired blonde, and about 19
> years old.
>
> I have never seen a team so thoroughly shut up.
>
> And in defense of some men, I was equally happy to see my team of middle
> aged guys cheering her, in awe and camaraderie, verrrrry glad to have her
> around, and no sexist commentary at all.
>
> I hope such an incident happens to your acquaintances from the bar - and
> you are there to watch, or better yet, to skate!
>
> - Linda Meichle
> #12
> _______________________________________________
> women-in-hockey mailing list
> email@hidden
> http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
--
Megan B. Edwards
Rhythm & Hues
310 448 7551
*Some oxygen atoms help fires burn while others help make water,
so sometimes it's brother against brother.
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Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:38:24 -0800
From: "Jeanne Wade"
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Skill level does count. Great story. Good fun for all. And you are most
likely right about the proof. If there anything at all that is heartening is
that more people get to play, and more women every day. Some people like it,
some don't. I am a fifty nine year old grandmother and had some one accuse me
of non-female tendencies because I like to play hockey. By a woman who is no
longer a friend. Sports are a good thing, for all of us, regardless of gender,
age etc. etc. My grandson is being taught to call me coach,. not grandma. At
three months he is 16 lbs, 24 1/4 inches and currently a potential power
forward in the 2019 draft (or so coach thinks). Not that I am bragging--at
least there are no pictures.
Thanks for the input.
Jeanne
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Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 13:51:03 -0500
To: "'email@hidden'"
From: "Louise C. Mallory"
Subject: Re: Please help show these men whats up
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At 08:56 AM 02/03/2001 -0500, Jacques, Sare wrote:
>the comment was made that a D3 mens club team could beat the
>womens olympic team.
>
>It took quite a bit of restraint to keep from jumping out of my seat and
>showing the guy where he should stuff that comment. But I counted to 10 and
>then calmly explained that perhaps he had not been following womens hockey
>that closely and that these women are not only huge and in amazing shape -
>but that they are highly skilled and would quite easily show a mens club
>hockey team whats up.
>Please help. I couldnt sleep last night I was so angry. I was ready to
>take them out to the pond and drop the gloves.
That kind of comment makes me angry too. Not just when it's wrong (as I'm
sure this one is), but because it *doesn't matter* what kind of men's team
the women's national teams can beat. The women athletes deserve respect
because of the way their hard work and talent make them excel *among their
peers*. Who cares whether a men's Junior A (or Jr B, or Midget AAA, or
whatever) team could beat them? Would this make them any less deserving of
respect, or any less fun to watch?
Louise
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Message-ID: <02e301c0a35a$a9db9ca0$email@hidden>
From: "Michael Cunningham"
To:
Subject: re:please help show these men......
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:52:13 -0500
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I'm having difficulty finding the precise info quickly enough, but it's my
recollection that in the few months between the selection of the '96 Olympic
team and the Olympics themselves, the US team played an exhibition game
against a D2 or D3 US men's college team. I seem to recall that it was played
no-check, and that the women won. Anyone else remember this one?
If I can find more details, I'll send them along.
Michael Cunningham
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In December before the Olympics, I watched the US Women's team play an "all
star" team comprised of male players from the local rink. (Chelsea Piers in
NYC) These men are coaches, former college players, and one even played in
the NHL for a while. Oh yeah, Tim Robbins (the actor) was on that team as
well.
The women held on for the 1st 2 periods, but the men came on strong to romp
the women in the 3rd.
While I would like to say "yeah, women can whip the guys butts" it is jsut a
fact that the average man is physically bigger and stronger than the average
woman. Therefore, in contests which involve speed and strength, men will
usually win.
Also - it is hard to determine exactly what "equal abilities" are. e.g. Is
it fair to pit D1 women against D1 men? Yes - because they are both at
their highest level (collegiate) of their sport. No - because the D1 men are
probably headed for the NHL. Should D1 women be pitted against D1 men?
Well, I'm not so sure that is not fair either - you are pitting the top women
against (relatively) mediocre men. But, the size & strength factor is still
there. Even when playing non-checking (although that does equalize to some
extent.)
Jill
# 77 Brooklyn Blades