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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:07:11 EST
Subject: girls checking league
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We are brainstorming ideas to sove the problem of few girls 15-U teams to
play in our midwest area. The 3 teams in our league involve 5-7 hrs drive.
Unfortunately, these veteran teams refuse to come to our area to recpricate
playing league games.
This brought up the idea of starting a girls checking team at the Bantam B1
or B2 level. Is there a rule that says there cannot be an all girl checking
team? We have heard there is. We thought if we could do that we could be
scheduled into regular league play and have 20-25 games. Any other
suggestions to solve this problem?
The other idea is to start a non-checking pee-wee and bantam league. Has
anyone done this?
Debbie
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:32:55 -0500
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From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: girls checking league
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We are in a similar position. One of the things we have looked at is
finding a league that will accept us and allow us to play on ice
bought closer to the other teams. To do this, you basically run a
tournament every 3 to 4 weeks to get your games in. This would give
you at least 20 games plus any you could pick up with local boys,
high school, and women's teams in your area. Three to 6 teams come
to that one spot and you play 4 games. In many ways it is better
because you increase your practice time because you are not
travelling every weekend. The ratio of practice to game play
improves, which has been recommended by everyone, and you only travel
every 3 to 4 weeks. The long drive may be worth it to other teams
if they get 4 games in on a weekend and gain a weekend without
travel. Our hockey playing kids are usually not only children and it
makes life easier. We have also played boys bantam teams without
checking. They don't mind because they get to practice skills. We
also play college club teams. I don't think that there is any reason
not to start a checking team, it is just that the boys get so much
bigger than the girls by second year Bantam.
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From: "Olson, Lynn"
To: "Women-in-Hockey@hockeyfanz. com (E-mail)"
Subject: German Contact and Olympic Qualifying
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:28:50 -0600
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In reply to the questions regarding Germany: The German Federation can be
contacted at http://www.deb-online.de/. Maybe they can help you out.
On the German website I also found the following information regarding
qualifying for the 2002 Olympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City.
"The men's and women's Olympic qualifications to determine the remaining six
(men's) and two (women's) spots start on Feb. 8 in three European cities.
In the women's qualifications at Engelberg, the hosts (10) Switzerland, (9)
Japan, (8) Kazakstan and (7) Germany will also play a round-robin tournament
where the top two teams will go to Salt Lake City.
The highest ranked team (based on their results in the 2000 IIHF World
Women's Championships) will join the Olympic Preliminary Pool B with USA
(defending Olympic Champion), Finland and China while the second ranked team
joins Pool A with Canada, Sweden and Russia. All Olympic Qualifications end
on Feb. 11."
Lynn Olson
Minnesota Hockey Director Girls/Women
5909 12th Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55417
612-861-2671 Phone and Fax
E-mail Address email@hidden
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:57:00 -0500
From: George Boccanfuso
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Subject: Re: girls checking league
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Are you people crazy?
Is it not true that anatomically a crushing body check can do harm to
the reproductive system?
Is there a doctor in the house to answer this?
Thanks
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:12:20 -0500
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From: Louise
Subject: Re: girls checking league
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At 09:57 AM 12/02/2001 -0500, George Boccanfuso wrote:
>Are you people crazy?
>
>Is it not true that anatomically a crushing body check can do harm to
>the reproductive system?
Male or female?
Louise
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:22:21 -0500
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From: Barbara Bartholomew
Subject: girl's checking
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I also am interested in what doctors say about this - so please let us know. Anecdotally, I have been taking some crushing body checks, I think, just in non-checking hockey with women and young men, and my reproductive system feels fine, but my back, neck, shoulders and hips hurt a bit. Perhaps taking a check should be a part of hockey training even in non-checking hockey. Would anyone like to give me some tips?
Barbara Bartholomew
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:26:08 -0500
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From: David R Strong
Subject: Re: girls checking league
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At 09:57 AM 2/12/01 -0500, George Boccanfuso wrote:
>Are you people crazy?
If your goal is to foster the growth of girls' hockey in
your area, I would agree with George. There are good
reasons why there is not open-ice, shoulder-to-the-body
checking in the girls' game.
Number one, if you're part of USA Hockey, then you play
by their rule book. Ignoring their rules will probably
invalidate their insurance coverage, among other things.
Number two, checking will discourage less-experienced
skaters from joining your team/league. Parents will
understandably be reluctant to risk their daughters'
health to take up the sport of hockey.
Number three, the risk of injury will become much greater
for even the experienced skaters. If you haven't already
noticed, there is a much greater spread of ability to
deliver and take body contact among girls than boys.
Female hockey does not prohibit all body contact; there
is plenty of physical play in one-on-one rushes and battles
for the puck near the boards.
If several girls are interested in playing full contact,
there is the option of playing on a boys' team. Presidents
of all USA Hockey associations sign a non-discrimination
affidavit each year as part of their certification process.
Local decisions can be made as to whether to allow rostering
on two teams simultaneously, but they cannot prohibit a girl
from playing on a boys' team.
David Strong
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Subject: Re: girls checking league
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 01 10:52:46 -0500
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From: ellice
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There is indeed a rule prohibiting Girls Checking Leagues. If, IF, you
are playing USA Hockey. All girls leagues, teams are non-check.
Furthermore, if a "girls" team plays in a male division, then those games
are played non-check. Also, the mouthguard rule always applies to the
girls.
In this area, the elite (AA) girls U-19 team has played some of the Tier
II Midget A or B boys teams. They've been very competitive, 1-goal type
games. The officials made sure to remind both benches that the game was
non-check, although body contact in the course of playing the puck is
allowed. I've seen some of the younger girls house teams, or just plain
'ole travel teams also play some of the local boys teams. The games are
non-league - as in don't count for standings in porgression towards
districts or nationals, but have been good games. The boys adapt to not
checking, it makes them work on skill, and same for the girls, as well as
they work hard on being tough with playing the puck, riding off the
opponents, etc. Anyhow, perhaps that is an option. There are 2 local
teams playing house here with the boys - one is U-15 - playing with
peewees non-check, another program has had a U-12 (nominal) playing with
the Squirts.
The worst plays we've seen have been really viscious checks thrown by a
girl on the U-19 team - saying "hey - I played the body - what's the
problem?" as she was escorted to the box. Of course, the problems were a
non-check game, the check was a charge/boarding and would've been called
no matter, and even in a checking game the priority is to play the puck -
open ice, non-puck carrier hits aren't allow.
If you want to start your own league, that has checking girls, then you
need to find your own insurance, etc. USAH will not sanction those games.
So, you have to do something about liability and insurance for everyone
on the ice at those games - players, coaches, refs. Not trivial.
good luck,
ellice
>Received: 2/12/01 10:37 AM
>From: email@hidden
*snip*
>This brought up the idea of starting a girls checking team at the Bantam B1
>or B2 level. Is there a rule that says there cannot be an all girl checking
>team? We have heard there is. We thought if we could do that we could be
>scheduled into regular league play and have 20-25 games. Any other
>suggestions to solve this problem?
>The other idea is to start a non-checking pee-wee and bantam league. Has
>anyone done this?
>Debbie
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From: "Cntry Dancr"
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
Subject: Re: girls checking league
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:33:37 -0000
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YOU must be the one who is nuts!! Posting something like this. Damn if
someone should break out a few fire extinguishers 'cause it's gonna get hot
in here!!!
If that were true Mr. Boccanfuso, then we seriously better think of banning
women from being Jockeys, playing Fast pitch softball, Basketball (those who
think its a non-contact sport hasn't watched college ball lately), and oh my
let's not forget Soccer.
Let's just hope that this was an innocent question on your part George asked
in unknowing ignorance.
In addition to currently playing pick-up Hockey with the boys, I have played
most of the above sports as well as owning, training and riding horses.
Despite the accidents and injuries, I have a beautiful son to show for my
'exertions'.
Please understand George that in ANY sport there are risks to be taken and I
would be more concerned with my son, because if I remember my anatomy
correctly, men have more to protect and to worry about since their important
parts are more vulnerable to damage -- being that they are not as well
protected as ours. (External vs. Internal)
So please understand George that we are not "crazy". If you men, with your
"exposure" have had not serious complications with playing contact sports
over these many years, I seriously don't think us women should have to be
concerned.
Thanks all for allowing me this time on the Soap Box.
Cntry_dancr aka Sk8tn on the Edge
San Francisco Bay Area
----Original Message Follows----
From: George Boccanfuso
Reply-To: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: girls checking league
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:57:00 -0500
Are you people crazy?
Is it not true that anatomically a crushing body check can do harm to
the reproductive system?
Is there a doctor in the house to answer this?
Thanks
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From: Danielle Dufour
To: "'email@hidden'" ,
email@hidden
Subject: RE: college hockey
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:33:41 -0700
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Check this web site: Eric Carlsons College Hockey Links:
www.home.gci.net/~uafhockey/ehockey.html
-----Original Message-----
From: email@hidden [mailto:email@hidden]
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 9:32 PM
To: email@hidden
Subject: college hockey
hey, does anyone have any info about womens college hockey in/near boston?
i'm asophomore in highschool now.. and im planning on honing my hockey
skills to play in college.. anyone have any information?
jessica
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Subject: Re: girls checking league
In-Reply-To: Message from George Boccanfuso of
"Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:57:00 EST."
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:25:02 -0800
From: Chuck Collins
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George Boccanfuso wrote:
> Are you people crazy?
>
> Is it not true that anatomically a crushing body check can do harm to
> the reproductive system?
>
> Is there a doctor in the house to answer this?
Very true. That's why all males are required to wear a protective cup.
Don't need a doctor to answer this. It's already covered by the rules.
Folks, this looks like a "Luddite" post. Taking it too seriously could
do more harm to the reproductive system than hockey can.
As far as "breaking the rules" of USA Hockey in order to start a
checking league, that is not what the original poster was recommending.
If you register a team as a girls' or women's team, no checking is
allowed in any games played by that team. However, there is nothing
stopping a team from registering as a "Youth" team, such as Bantam
rec, and playing checking hockey. Just because a team has no boys
does not mean it can't be a boys' team. The only sticky issue might
be whether your tryouts would have to be open to boys as well.
If a girls' team exists, and they want to register the same set of players
as, say, youth bantam rec, and all the players conform to the age
guidelines of that division, that team can legally play checking hockey
under the USA Hockey insurance and rules. It's just that none of those
games could count in qualifying the team toward National Championship
play as a girls' team.
And note that a bantam "boys'" team can play Pee Wee boys' teams as well
and check, although some leagues may have extra rules governing that.
I would probably be careful and use a different team "mascot" name and
even sweaters when playing under the two identities. But there are
multiply-registered teams under USA Hockey rules. As a matter of fact,
certain situations REQUIRE a team to re-register.
- Chuck Collins
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:29:43 EST
Subject: clarifying reason for girls checking team
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I want to clarify the reason why I was inquiring about forming an all girl
checking team. We have found it extremely difficult to find any team to play
a practice game against because of the prevalent "girls shouldn't play
hockey" attitude of the coaches of the boy teams. Therefore the thought
occured to me if we registered our girls team in a C league or a club Bantam
B1 or B2 league we would be scheduled into their regular game schedule and
would be playing 20-25 games.
No, it's not the best solution to our problem of having no teams to play
practice games against. But it is one solution I can think of. When you
have to travel 5-7 hrs. to play a game you can see how frustrating this is.
Debbie
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:35:48 EST
Subject: Re: girls checking league
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In a message dated 2/12/01 9:28:31 AM Central Standard Time, email@hidden
writes:
> Number one, if you're part of USA Hockey, then you play
> by their rule book. Ignoring their rules will probably
> invalidate their insurance coverage, among other things.
>
>
I have no intention of breaking USA hockey rules. Did I say that? We were
told(by local board "authorities") that there was a rule that girls can play
on a boys checking team but that an all girls team cannot play in a boys
checking league. I was wondering if there really was such a rule or if this
was just made up to keep us from participating.
Debbie
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:29:44 EST
Subject: Re: college hockey
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Hey Jessica,
There are a whole bunch of schools in boston with great hockey teams. I'm
partial to BU (im one of the goalies)... we're club, but hands down the best
club team in the country, and were probably going varsity within 5 years.
BC, Harvard, and Northeastern are all D1, and get about 90% of their roster
from recruiting (as far as i know, anyway). MIT has a varsity and club
team... the smaller colleges, such as Suffolk and Emerson--we've never played
them, nor heard of them having a team.
BTW- Although we lost to Northeastern in the first Beanpot game last week,
were poised for an upset tomorrow against BC.. heres to crossing your fingers
for us!
We also swept our non-tournament games this weekend, beating Quinnipiac 6-1,
and Bates 7-2, bringing us to a season total of (i think) 18-2!
If you need any info about the BU program, email me off the list, and I'll be
more than happy to help ya.
~Amy, #30
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:47:53 -0800
From: "Megan B. Edwards"
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I know many of these are not in Boston but here are all the teams from "Back
East".
Division I teams:
Boston College
Brown
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Maine
Niagra
Northeastern
Princeton
Providence
St. Lawrence
U.N.H.
Yale
Division III:
Amherst
Bowdoin
Colby
Colgate
Conn. College
Hamilton
Manhattanville
Middlebury
M.I.T. (mass. Institute of Tech.)
Rensselaer
R.I.T. (Rochester Institute of Tech.)
So. Maine
Sacred Heart
Trinity
Union
Vermont
Wesleyan
Williams
email@hidden wrote:
> hey, does anyone have any info about womens college hockey in/near boston?
> i'm asophomore in highschool now.. and im planning on honing my hockey
> skills to play in college.. anyone have any information?
> jessica
> _______________________________________________
> women-in-hockey mailing list
> email@hidden
> http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
--
Megan B. Edwards
Rhythm & Hues
310 448 7551
*Some oxygen molecules help fires burn while others help make water,
so sometimes it's brother against brother.
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:28:31 EST
Subject: Re: college hockey
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In a message dated 2/12/2001 1:34:04 PM Central Standard Time,
email@hidden writes:
> ... the smaller colleges, such as Suffolk and Emerson--we've never played
> them, nor heard of them having a team.
>
don't know about Suffolk but Emerson's hockey team is dead. =( it dies about
a year before I arrived there, it was men's (that's never stoppoed me though,
I played men's lacrosse for 15 years =) ) they disbanded it because there
were apparently more students from Berkelee College of music on the team than
one's from Emerson.
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:06:40 EST
Subject: Re: girls checking league
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In a message dated 2/12/01 9:10:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, email@hidden
writes:
> The other idea is to start a non-checking pee-wee and bantam league. Has
> anyone done this?
>
Hi Debbie,
That is EXACTLY what our organization is doing, but with a bit of a twist. I
coach for the Cincinnati Amateur Hockey Association (CAHA) and I started our
first ever "Girls Program" this year. We will be allowing "Girls only" teams
, what we call "Girls Select" teams into our house league next year. We
usually have somewhere between 6-10 teams in each house age division. Our
girls will be playing under "Girls select" rules, which means that we use
"Girls" age divisions which lets us have girls that are a year or so older
than the traditional "boys" age division on the teams. For example, I will
be coaching a Girls "Select" Squirt team in the house league and instead of
adhering to the boys age rules, we will use the girls which basically allows
me to use the Dec. cut off date and have girls 12 and under for that. My
daughter would have had to go up to Pee Wee, but she will now qualify to stay
a Squirt for one more year. In addition to that, we will field a Girls "Pee
Wee" team whose ages will be 15 and under AND when the boys house teams play
that Girls Pee Wee team, the "no checking" rule will be in effect.
I urge you present this idea to your organization as we have found our
organization to be VERY adaptive to help our girls. This will allow our
girls to not only have regular practices and regular games all season, but
also keep the same team togethor when we do girls tournaments. Stress to
your organization what the "House" leagues are REALLY supposed to be about.
They are not supposed to be competitive (check USA hockey for backing on
this), but for "introduction" to the sport, skill building and FUN! Hope
this helps!
Jackie Isaacs
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To: email@hidden
cc: email@hidden
Subject: Re: girls checking league
In-Reply-To: Message from email@hidden of "Mon, 12 Feb 2001
13:35:48 EST."
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:56:32 -0800
From: Chuck Collins
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> In a message dated 2/12/01 9:28:31 AM Central Standard Time, email@hidden
> writes:
>
>
> > Number one, if you're part of USA Hockey, then you play
> > by their rule book. Ignoring their rules will probably
> > invalidate their insurance coverage, among other things.
> >
> >
>
> I have no intention of breaking USA hockey rules. Did I say that? We were
> told(by local board "authorities") that there was a rule that girls can play
> on a boys checking team but that an all girls team cannot play in a boys
> checking league. I was wondering if there really was such a rule or if this
> was just made up to keep us from participating.
Someone actually said that? It may be a true statement that a team registered
as a girls team may not play. You need to ask point blank if a team that
is registered as "Youth Bantam B" may play in the league. The answer must
be yes. Then follow up with whether a girl may play on a "Youth Bantam B",
and whether she can participate in a checking game. We all already know
the answer to this is yes, or it's time to take someone to court. Once
they realize that you are talking about an all-girls team, if they start to
resist, ask them for the minimum number of male players required, and
ask them to cite their authority.
People get confused very easily about this. Use small words and small
procedural increments.
- Chuck Collins
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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:04:13 -0500
To: email@hidden
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: girls checking league
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>Are you people crazy?
>
>Is it not true that anatomically a crushing body check can do harm to
>the reproductive system?
>
>Is there a doctor in the house to answer this?
>
>Thanks
A while ago I did some work on the necessity of jills. I spoke to
several doctors. While jills protect the external genitalia, they
are not necessary to protect the internal sex organs such as ovaries
and the uterus. The pelvis is a cage that takes care of all that
stuff. Checking doesn't do anything to the sex organs that are
buried deeply within the pelvis. That is why they were placed there
in the first place. Think of the pelvis as your own personal
Mercedes cage with air bags.
If a crushing body check could do damage to the ovaries and uterus
they could do even worse to the testes.
Debbie Minden
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From: Andria Hunter
To: email@hidden
Subject: Teams to Compete in 2002 Olympics are finalized
Cc: email@hidden, email@hidden
Message-Id:
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:16:09 -0500
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It looks like Kazakstan and Germany have claimed the final two spots
for the 2002 Olympics. Here is a link to the result of the Olympic
qualification tournament. Japan and Switzerland were the other two
teams competing in this qualification tournament.
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria/int/qual/2001/olympics.html
So the 8 teams that will complete at the 2002 Winter Olympics are:
Pool A Pool B
Canada USA
Sweden Finland
Russia China
Germany Kazakstan
Andria
==============================================================================
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Subject: Re: clarifying reason for girls checking team
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 01 19:30:23 -0500
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From: ellice
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Debbie,
what about registering into a league as a Squirt "A" travel team? Then
you're in a non-check division. Or are there any house leagues where the
PeeWees play non-check - just enter your team there. It's still USAH, but
house won't get you to districts, etc generally. However, you'd get games.
g'luck,
ellice
>Received: 2/12/01 6:29 PM
>From: email@hidden
>To: email@hidden
>
>I want to clarify the reason why I was inquiring about forming an all girl
>checking team. We have found it extremely difficult to find any team to
>play
>a practice game against because of the prevalent "girls shouldn't play
>hockey" attitude of the coaches of the boy teams. Therefore the thought
>occured to me if we registered our girls team in a C league or a club Bantam
>B1 or B2 league we would be scheduled into their regular game schedule and
>would be playing 20-25 games.
>No, it's not the best solution to our problem of having no teams to play
>practice games against. But it is one solution I can think of. When you
>have to travel 5-7 hrs. to play a game you can see how frustrating this is.
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Subject: Re: girls checking league
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 01 19:40:10 -0500
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From: ellice
To: "Chuck Collins"
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>Received: 2/12/01 6:29 PM
>From: Chuck Collins, email@hidden
>To: email@hidden
>CC: email@hidden
*snipped*
>
>As far as "breaking the rules" of USA Hockey in order to start a
>checking league, that is not what the original poster was recommending.
>
>If you register a team as a girls' or women's team, no checking is
>allowed in any games played by that team. However, there is nothing
>stopping a team from registering as a "Youth" team, such as Bantam
>rec, and playing checking hockey. Just because a team has no boys
>does not mean it can't be a boys' team. The only sticky issue might
>be whether your tryouts would have to be open to boys as well.
Hmmm - I think you'd have a very difficult time with this. In my
experience, and I asked a lot of questions about this, as officials we
were told that an all-girls team is an all-girls team is a girls team -
meaning, no-checking, and everyone wears mouthguards. OTOH, you could
have a co-ed team - there are plenty of those here in the non-check,
younger, age groups (Mite, Squirt) and some house PeeWee where they play
non-check.
Last summer one of the larger clubs ran their upper and middle house
programs (normally full check) as non-check. The girls from the U-19 and
U-15 teams played with the Midget/Bantam group or PeeWees as age
appropriate, and they all played non-check. Idea being to make the boys
be more skill concentrated, and the girls a bit more aggressive. Made for
some very interesting games - a bit confuse - early but worked very well
on the whole - all the kids seemed to have a good time. The coaches with
attitude problems either got over it, or shut-up.
>If a girls' team exists, and they want to register the same set of players
>as, say, youth bantam rec, and all the players conform to the age
>guidelines of that division, that team can legally play checking hockey
>under the USA Hockey insurance and rules. It's just that none of those
>games could count in qualifying the team toward National Championship
>play as a girls' team.
>And note that a bantam "boys'" team can play Pee Wee boys' teams as well
>and check, although some leagues may have extra rules governing that.
Since PeeWees are a checking level, there are not different rules,
although local leagues can always make the USAH rules stricter.
>I would probably be careful and use a different team "mascot" name and
>even sweaters when playing under the two identities. But there are
>multiply-registered teams under USA Hockey rules. As a matter of fact,
>certain situations REQUIRE a team to re-register.
It's an interesting conundrum. Generally teams re-register when they are
playing in multiple conferences/leagues all of which qualify toward
District/National tournaments. Or slightly changing a team for a
tournament.
good luck to all of you,
ellice
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To:
Subject: Re: Teams to Compete in 2002 Olympics are finalized
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:41:09 -0600
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