Parent
From: email@hidden (Women-in-Hockey Digest)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #513
Reply-To: women-in-hockey
Sender: email@hidden
Errors-To: email@hidden
Precedence: bulk
Women-in-Hockey Digest Friday, October 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 513
In this issue:
Re: hotels near rinks/St. Louis
Re: youth mouth guards
Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
Serving Suspensions!
Re: Serving Suspensions!
Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
mouth guard question
Re: mouth guard question
=======================================================================
Unsubscribe:
Help:
or
=======================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:06:52 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: hotels near rinks/St. Louis
In a message dated 10/14/99 9:27:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
<< If there is anyone on this list from those teams, if you know
of any hotels that are close to the rinks where we will be playing,
the information would be greatly appreciated.
>>
Dear Jenn,
I live across the river from St. Louis(in IL). What rink will you be playing
in? There are several. Are you playing the Force? When? You can reach me
at my email if you wish and I'll help you w/ motels.
Debbie #49's Mom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:19:23 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: youth mouth guards
In a message dated 10/14/99 9:27:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
<<
Just remember if you decide to get a custom mouthguard, USA Hockey
requires
all players 19 and Under to have a colored mouthguard. It cannot be
clear.
>>
Yes, and it has to be attached to the face mask. My daughter had a custom
mouth guard and the next year(this was several years ago) they made it a rule
it must be attached to the face mask by a "string". She plays in the boys'
league but, I guess it's the same for girls. Anyway, we ended up buying a
Shock Dr.
Debbie #49's Mom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:57:55 -0600
From: "Erickson, Pamela J (Pamela)** CTR **"
Subject: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
We have a situation where a young women is insisting on being in the boys
locker room. She is of Youth Midget age. She and her parents on her having
the right to be there, however, the boys are very uncomfortable. What
solutions has the list come up with to satisfy the safety of all the kids
(boys and girls), coaches liability and equal rights?
Any comments will be very welcome.
Pam Erickson
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Erin Malinowski
Subject: Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
Having played on co-ed teams for many years, I found
that the following solutions worked best for me:
On the teams with a high percentage of girls, the
locker room became a "beach attire" area. Meaning,
whatever you "stripped" down to had to be beach-legal.
The girls usually would go to the washroom to put on
their spandex and sports bras and the boys would step
in the shower to don their attire.
On teams where I was the only female (or one of 2),
I'd either change in the washroom, the coach's locker
room, the referees room or wait until 10 minutes
before the game and change quickly in the team locker
room. Some rinks had a figure skating-instructor's
room that I could use.
Wherever she changes, she should still enter the
locker room prior to the coach's pre-game talk and
stay for his post-game talk.
While there is something to be said for the camraderie
that is built in a locker room, there is more to be
said about having teenagers (who's hormones are
already difficult to control) changing clothes with
each other.
Erin
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:04:29 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
In a message dated 10/15/99 7:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
This is an interesting question. Have any of you ever been in a boys midget
locker room after a game? The smell alone would deter most!
Addressing the problem from a hygiene/privacy perspective, mixing genders in
the locker room where there are group showers connected to the change area
without a door or screen is probably not desirable. Our facility has doors
between change room and shower/toilet area. I have changed and showered in
mostly male locker rooms, but these were "mature" (read over 30 married)
individuals and the question of privacy was worked out with simple
communication about who got to shower first. If I dally getting equipment
off, I wait behind 14 guys. The setup also affords privacy when entering or
exiting shower, so that you can dry off and dress before returning to the
change area. There is also a certain etiquette to doffing gear that respects
privacy.....as in, "keep your eyes on your own bidness".
In all the drop in sessions I have skated in where I had to change with the
guys, I never had a problem with the guys being inappropriate (language,
suggestion, inuendo) towards me or any of the other women skating drop-in. I
have observed offensive behaviour from a woman, including hitting on, sexual
innuendo directed at the guys, while we were getting gear on or off. This
woman was also inappropriate on the ice, too (grabbing face masks, checking
guys because she could get away with it) and is not skating at the rink
anymore, but served to demonstrate that the harassment issue needs to be
considered both ways.
From a Title IX perspective, the midget girl shouldn't have to fight to have
access to comparable facilities, the shower, being the most important. If no
other shower facilities exist, the teenage girl might have a strong argument
for use of the same locker room. If I were managing the rink, I would have
that supervised by an adult to protect the rink from litgation from either
camp. A workable solution would be the girl showers first. If she is a
bathroom "diva", not one of those "shower 'n go" types, she goes last.
I don't blame the teenage guys for being nervous and I would support them in
keeping their dressing area private, if there is another locker room
available with a shower for the girl. To be in the locker room "just to be
changing with the team" isn't compelling enough to ignore growth and social
development issues in this age group. Team bonding and game debriefing can
be accomplished at the pizza place or rink burger stand after the
game....with everyone dressed!
Just my $0.04
Terry Pendergast
Houston
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:11:41 -0400
From: Louise
Subject: Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
At 07:57 AM 15/10/1999 -0600, Pamela wrote:
>We have a situation where a young women is insisting on being in the boys
>locker room. She is of Youth Midget age. She and her parents on her having
>the right to be there, however, the boys are very uncomfortable. What
>solutions has the list come up with to satisfy the safety of all the kids
>(boys and girls), coaches liability and equal rights?
Erin's already listed the two most common solutions - either everybody is
covered in the dressing room, or the minority dresses elsewhere and then
comes in. It's quite reasonable to expect players of Midget age to be able
to dress in 10-15 minutes, so there's no reason they couldn't all be
dressed before the coaches begin talking.
As for coaches' liability (and the comfort of kids and parents), one thing
that would help is to recruit one woman to your team staff. (Perhaps the
mother of this girl? Or the partner of one of the coaches? If you can't
talk her into taking a coach or trainer qualification, she can still be the
manager with mostly administrative duties.) Then, for whatever period of
time the dressing room is "mixed" (either just for the pre-game/postgame
talks, or for a longer period of time), the female staff member should be
there as well as a male staff member. (For liability reasons, you don't
want to ever have only one adult present when kids are changing. Opinions
differ on whether you should leave the players alone/unsupervised while
changing - I've heard stories of coaches getting in trouble for some
serious vandalism done by midget boys, for example - but in the situation
you describe, it's probably better to have two adults around while the
group is mixed.)
Policy 12 of the Ontario Hockey Federation says:
It is the policy of the OHF that separate dressing rooms/areas be provided
for both male and female personnel, which includes players, coches,
officials, and volunteers.
but this policy doesn't give any suggestions about what to do with the
multitude of arenas that have only one referees room, no place for the
coaches to change except with players, or the situation where 8 dressing
rooms would be needed to separate each gender on each co-ed team and the
arena has only 4.
Another thing that always bugs me, is the arenas which have one
shower/toilet room for each two dressing rooms. Either you have opponents
sharing a shower (not a big deal for many teams, but not too smart for
hot-tempered Midget/Juvenile boys), or to avoid that problem you have our
team showering in the same bathroom where the boys on the next hour want to
come in and fill their water bottles. Probably they fill a lot more water
bottles on the nights we are showering ...
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:05:05 -0700
From: Trina Marie Slivinski
Subject: Serving Suspensions!
Just wanted to know if anyone had any input or information on serving
suspensions. Does anyone know whether or not Exhibition games count for
serving suspensions. I know that as a suspended player, one cannot take
part in any sanctioned activities, including Exhibition games. There is
no rule in writing anywhere in the constitution and bylaws saying
anything about exhibition games, except that one cannot participate.
Our team plays a total of 14 regular season games this year, and I know
that there is a rule stating that if you play a season of 20 games or
less, you sit out the number of games suspended or three weeks, which
ever is less.
I was just wondering if anyone had any input or rules clarification on
this matter. Registration for this year took place was back in the
beginning of September, and the season didn't actually start until a
month later. I was told that as a suspended player I could even tryout
for a team this year. It wasn't until after tryouts, that our team
delegate was told that I could have skated on the tryout ice. I haven't
been on the ice yet, but am waiting anxiously. Our team is in an
exhibition tournament this weekend, and I was told that I couldn't
participate, because the games don't count towards my suspension... I'm
confused.! I've sat out one Exhibition game, and three house league
games so far... that's 4 games! We did have a scheduled game for this
weekend, but it's canceled so that we can participate in the mini
exhibition tournament.
If anyone has any input please contact me personally if you'd like.
email@hidden.
Thanks... and sorry to bore everyone!
Desperately looking forward to returning to the ice!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Erin Malinowski
Subject: Re: Serving Suspensions!
Trina,
You don't mention what type of suspension that you are
serving or wear you are from. This does make a
difference.
If it is a USA Hockey suspension then it is served in
USA Hockey games regardless of whether or not they are
league games. However most leagues, at least around
here, also require that the suspension be served
during league games. (Example: Player gets a 3-game
suspention in an Oct 1 league game. She sits out her
games on Oct 3(exhibition), Oct 7 (league) and Oct 10
(league). She would have served her USA Hockey
suspension and could play in her next non-league game.
She still must sit out her next league game to comply
with league rules. So she could play Oct 12
(exhibition) but need to sit out October 14(league).)
It gets really confusing when you have to meet several
sets of rules. Your best bet is to speak to whichever
group suspended you and find out exactly when your
suspension will end - then take this information to
your league and find out when you can begin playing in
the league again.
Hope this didn't confuse you more!
Erin
- --- Trina Marie Slivinski wrote:
> Just wanted to know if anyone had any input or
> information on serving
> suspensions. Does anyone know whether or not
> Exhibition games count for
> serving suspensions.
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:00:40 -0400
From: Debbie Minden
Subject:
My daughter is playing Bantam, and has been with these boys since
mini-mite. There does not appear to be any problem. The language is no
problem, because they hear everthing at school. If anything, the kids are
more respectful of each other verbally. If, however, a new girl were to
join them, or my daughter were to change to another team, I can see that
there might be some discomfort. The problem is that much of the bonding is
done in the locker, and most of the information is given out there. From
what I have seen, there is virtually no display of flesh in the locker.
The kids all wear boxers, and even if my daughter stripped down to her bra,
which she doesn't, a sports bra covers more than a bikini top.
There are lots of problems in getting a decent place for a girl to change
without the boys. In some smaller rinks, there are not enough lockers for
everyone to have one. That means the girl(s) get the ladies room, which is
usually not big enough for a hockey bag. The girl becomes an outcast
because she doesn't hear everything. The girl is out of the loop, unless
the coach doesn't come in until everyone is dressed and someone gets the
girl so she can get all the info. Likewise, at the end of the game, the
girl has to come in, hear the coach, then leave, while everyone else either
rejoices or comiserates. Not a great way to be part of the team.
I think that maybe the team just has to try having everyone change together
a few more times. Pretty soon no one will notice. The girl has to just
tough it out. Also, no inadvertant (or purposful) flirting. Just be one
of the guys. If she needs any lessons, I'll send my daughter. She talks,
smells, and acts just like one of the boys when she is at the rink.
Debbie Minden
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:31:43 -0700
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
At 07:57 AM 10/15/99 -0600, Erickson, Pamela J (Pamela)** CTR ** wrote:
>We have a situation where a young women is insisting on being in the boys
>locker room. She is of Youth Midget age. She and her parents on her having
>the right to be there, however, the boys are very uncomfortable. What
>solutions has the list come up with to satisfy the safety of all the kids
>(boys and girls), coaches liability and equal rights?
I have played on mixed-gender teams for three years. We
are adults, so we are presumably more mature than teenagers,
but I have always shared the locker room with my male teammates,
and it has never been an issue. Usually no one strips past their
underwear; mostly people are already wearing the shorts they
will be wearing under their hockey gear. I don't worry about
sports bras, because they're meant to be outerwear anyway.
I think it would be a considerable disadvantage to ban one team
member from the locker room. A lot of team bonding and
team planning takes place there. I don't know how to help
the boys become more comfortable except to say that they'll
get used to it.
- --Anne Paulson
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:59:13 -0700
From: Chuck Collins
Subject: Re: Girls in Boy's Locker Rooms
This is an interesting topic.
My daughter is 15 and has always skated on predominantly boys teams.
I've also been an avid observer of how different groups handle this issue.
There are a lot of girls in California playing on boys' teams.
First of all, if the kids can work it out themselves, let them. When
the original poster suggested that some of the boys were having problems,
I wondered if what was really being said is that some of the boys'
parents were uncomfortable.
The BEST way to handle this is to give the kids a chance to work it out.
In my experience, a girl on a boys' team ends up not being able to use
the showers. No big deal, I think. If the shower is the important issue,
then she should use the ref's room if avialable or some alternative.
But every effort should be made from a team and hockey point of view to
let everyone dress in the same locker room. Everything else only serves
to further isolate a team member who is already fighting an uphill
battle.
It differs from child to child and group to group. But there really isn't
much need for anyone to strip below boxers and t-shirt in front of everyone
else. Someone called it beach attire. That's about right.
There are many teams existing in hockey right now for whom this is not
a problem. If a particular team is having problems dealing with it, it is
their own fault. If a particular girl is uncomfortable being in the locker
room, even with all the boys being well-behaved, then that's fine too. Find
an alternative.
But if a girl wants to stay in the locker room with the rest of her team,
it should not be viewed as a problem for the boys. Their parents should
look on it as a good opportunity for the boys to gain some maturity, and
the team and coach should require and encourage everyone to act well.
The adults need to display some maturity too, something that fails to
happen more than you'd think. There's a lot more that happens in the
locker room than chalk talks. That's where the true character of a team
is formed. Isolating one member from this important part of hockey is
just not right.
By the way, at tryouts we always try and have separate facilities for the
girls, only because they are not a team yet, and team accountability is not
yet present to encourage and enforce good behavior.
Let the kids work it out. They are capable.
- - Chuck Collins
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:11:21 -0400
From: L Krist
Subject: mouth guard question
To all the women who had their dentist make a mouth guard -
I have something made for me called a "night guard". Are they the same? Is
your mouth guard
worn on the upper teeth or the lower teeth, or is it "in the middle" like
the boil and bite stuff? I'd like to know if I can use my existing thing as
a mouth guard...
- -LK in Virginia
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:20:07 -0700
From: Bec Kemp
Subject: Re: mouth guard question
According to the 1999-2001 Official Rules of Ice Hockey......
Rule 304C
All players, including goalkeepers, in the PeeWee through Midget (including
High School) and in the Girls/Women 10-or-under through 19-or-under age
classifications are required to wear a colored (non-clear) internal
mouthpiece, which covers all the remaining teeth of one jaw, customarily
the upper.
For a violation of this rule a misconduct penalty shall be imposed. A game
misconduct penalty shall be assessed for a subsequent violation by the same
player or goalkeeper in the same game.
For all classifications except Seniors, it is required that the mouthpiece
be attached to the face mask or helmet.
It is recommended, in all classifications, that the mouthpiece be form
fitted by a Dentist.
At 07:11 PM 10/15/99 -0400, L Krist wrote:
>To all the women who had their dentist make a mouth guard -
>I have something made for me called a "night guard". Are they the same? Is
>your mouth guard
>worn on the upper teeth or the lower teeth, or is it "in the middle" like
>the boil and bite stuff? I'd like to know if I can use my existing thing as
>a mouth guard...
>
>-LK in Virginia
Bec Kemp
All persons ought to endeavor to follow what is right, and not what is
established.
~ Aristotle
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #513
*************************************