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Women-in-Hockey Digest Friday, August 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 477
In this issue:
Re: Advertising/Fundraising
Girls/women playing on boy's/men's teams- LONG REPLY
BU, locker rooms, etc...
Charlottesville Polar Fire
Re: BU Womens' Ice Terriers
equal time vs. skill
Re: equal time vs. skill
Equal time vs. skill
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:26:44 -0400
From: Louise
Subject: Re: Advertising/Fundraising
At 09:02 AM 12/08/99 -0400, J.E. Hamer wrote:
>Does anybody have any advertising/fundraising ideas that have worked well
>in the past?
Publicity:
Try to educate all your players (and parents, if you have young players)
about publicity being everybody's job. Explain that all of you will
benefit if there are more women and girls playing hockey. Make sure they
understand that it's important to welcome beginners. In the summer, give
flyers out to softball, soccer, and rugby players.
Be flexible about taking new players during the season - even if you have
full rosters, you could invite new players to practice with you.
If any of you sees another woman or girl wearing hockey skates at public
skating, or playing pick-up hockey, ask her if she plays, and let her know
that your all-female team is looking for more players.
Find out whether any of your local papers have spaces for free community
announcements. (Weekly papers are good for this, and so are campus
newspapers.) Send in a notice about registration and be clear about
welcoming beginners.
Post announcements (according to local custom) in local USENET newsgroups.
Make sure that you have signs up in all the local arenas all the time with
a contact phone number (not just the arena where you have your ice.)
Send press releases (to radio, TV, and newspapers) before your games.
Phone (fax, e-mail) in the scores after your games. Keep doing this even
if you don't get much response right away. If your daily newspaper has a
small-print section of local sports scores, find out what you need to do to
get in it regularly.
Fundraising:
I'm not nearly as good at fundraising as I am at publicity. Perhaps some
other posters will be able to give you more/better ideas.
In Ontario, sports organizations (it might be only kids' sports, I don't
know) can make money working at charity bingo halls. Teams in Ontario also
usually display the name of a sponsor on their sweaters.
When I was working with the Ohio State women's club and the Columbus
(COGWHA) Capitals girls' and women's hockey organization, some of the ideas
we used included:
- - a skate-a-thon, where players collected pledges from family and friends,
and we had a draw for donated prizes from among everyone who gave $10 or
more.
- - we sold ads in the game programs, and gave the programs away.
- - we also had a can at our games for donations from spectators
- - we applied for grants from the Recreational Sports office of the university
- - we sold chocolate bars
- - we made a slight profit on selling t-shirts, team hats, and other
paraphernalia
- - we put our name on the waiting list to work concessions at football and
basketball games
- - in a market where there wasn't much public skating, we rented ice for
late-night public skates
Good luck!
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:22:46 -0400
From: "Ron Goldey"
Subject: Girls/women playing on boy's/men's teams- LONG REPLY
Wow! I just got back from dropping my daughter off at Cornell, and I can't
believe the email in just 2 days!
Since I'm feeling a bit nostalgic today, having just delivered my kid to her
new home for the next 4 (or more) years, I thought I'd share my experiences
with girls playing on boy's teams.
Our daughter started playing ice hockey when she was 5. Her first team
wasn't a boy's team by definition, she was just the only girl on the team.
By the time she was a second-year mite, she was one of two girls in our
association. The other girl was Tammy Orlow, who became Princeton's goalie.
Tammy is 4 year's older, so Caylin didn't have to break new ground.
Coincidentally, to my knowledge there are only 2 players from our league who
have ever gone on to play D1 college hockey, and both are female. Cool, huh?
There were about 4 or 5 girls in our entire league, the Greater Cincinnati
YHL. When Caylin was about 8 or 9, I remember one occasion where a local
sports reporter asked several of the boys on Caylin's team if girls should
be allowed to play ice hockey. Obviously echoing someone they had heard,
they
all answered, "No, girls aren't good enough, strong enough, fast enough,
etc., to play hockey." When the reporter asked them, "What about Caylin?",
they said "Well, that's different, she's good."
In regards to girls playing in our league, everyone has always been
extremely supportive, including her coaches (especially her high school
coach). The only troublemakers we've ever run into were the administrators
at a local university (which shall remain nameless, even though you can
probably figure it out, since it's the only college in the Cincinnati area
with men's D1 hockey, whose initials are MU), who wouldn't let Caylin
participate in their "elite" summer camps. We could have fought them, but
instead we just found another camp. At the time it seemed easier.
As far as the physical nature of boy's hockey (especially in high school) is
concerned, Caylin has a definite advantage. She's 5' 11-1/2", 145 pounds.
She's never been physically dominated by any male player, and she's knocked
a boatload of 'em into the boards or onto the ice. I really don't think size
is that much of an issue. At the USA Hockey development camp in Lake Placid
last summer there was a young lady all the girls affectionately referred to
as "Monkey" (I never did find out her real name) who was one of the finest
defensemen I've ever seen, male or female, and she's probably 5' 3", 110
pounds (Monkey, if you read this and I've missed on your size, I apologize).
I do believe that a girl needs to be able to take a big hit, because it's
gonna happen some day. Weight training and plyometrics are a must by the
time a girl reaches high school. So is really high quality equipment.
On the "locker room" subject, The only folks feeling weird about Caylin
changing with the boys were the high school administration. They enacted
several rules about separate locker rooms, and it really wasn't that big of
a deal.
Until the '96 Hockey Night in Boston Tournament, Caylin had never played on
a girls team. The biggest difference I see between women's and men's hockey
is that in women's hockey you have the opportunity to use your hockey
abilities without worrying about getting clobbered. In men's hockey the top
male players are good enough to play heads-up and not have to think about
that all the time, but the rank-and -file players do, and you can see it in
their style of play. Early (and bad) passes, and hesitation. Removing the
hitting allows everyone to excel at the game. If you don't believe me go to
a national senior non-checking tournament some time. You'll see amazing puck
handling and hot dogging that you'd never see in a full-contact game.
As I said, I'm feeling nostalgic, so I appreciate an open forum to share my
memories and thoughts.
PS Go Big Red. If you want to see when Cornell's coming to a rink near you,
please visit http://www.athletics.cornell.edu/00_winter/00-hockey.html#women
Ron Goldey
Oxford, OH 45056
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:31:41 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: BU, locker rooms, etc...
<>
- --and everyone else who wrote i just couldnt find the things to
copy!------------
Thanks for all the wishes of luck at BU!! I don't really know why we
haven't gone varsity either when our schedule is mostly made up of varsity
teams. Supposedly, after talking to my coach, it seems that the team has most
of the perks of being varsity- buses to away games, most equipment paid for,
good ice times.. It seems that the only thing left is to actually have
varsity status. I'm going to ask about that once I get up there. As Jenn
pointed out, wouldn't you think that at a school with such a HUGE mens team
and reputation that the Womens' team would be a little more prominent?
It's going to be whole new level of game up there- we have some competition
down here in FL (well, actually not- only 3 girls teams in the state), but
absolutely nothing like what it's going to be playing MIT, Harvard, and those
other varsities!
Just to add to the locker room thread- my friend and I (both goalies)
play on the same boys Bantam/Midget team right now. I don't mind changing
with the guys - they wear stuff under the equipment, I wear stuff under the
equipment. Sometimes though, my friend would rather change outside- on a
bench right next to the ice- than change in the room with our team because
the room smells or its too crowded. I don't like the smell anymore than she
does, but theres something about being in the room with your team before a
game or a practice that I love- whether I contribute to the conversation or
laugh to myself about the immaturity of half my teammates (most of them are
16 year old boys.. so ya know what I mean).
So enough rambling anyway, I'm sure that I'll be writing a lot more once
I get up there and we start skating. I'll keep ya all posted!
Amy
BU Womens' Ice Terriers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:02:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jennifer Marie Sokol
Subject: Charlottesville Polar Fire
Hi all
I don't know if anyone out there is planning on going to
UVa, or moving into central Virginia, but if you are in the
area, the Charlottesville Polar Fire is looking for
players. There is an organizational meeting on Aug.. 18 at
6:45p.m. at the Charlottesville Ice Park on the Downtown mall.
Practices start the first week of Sept.. There is only one
team and all levels are welcome.
Also, we are looking for ways to get more women interested.
Also, there are very few girls (I think 6 under the age of
18) playing hockey. Any ideas on how to drum up some
interest?
Jennifer Marie Sokol
Polar Fire #31
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:33:32 -0400
From: Bill Cumming
Subject: Re: BU Womens' Ice Terriers
I have no idea, but as the coach of a Prep School team, none of my students
even consider BU because of their lack of support for the program. They
even refuse to go to the summer hockey camps.
At 05:55 AM 8/12/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I played for BU 1990-94. Now, when I hear about all of the teams that
>we used to play against who are now varisty, I wonder what BU's
>problem is! They have such a great following for their men's team,
>why do they think it would be much different for the women's team?
>
>We played against Northeasters, Harvard, MIT, U-Maine (Orono), Boston
>College, Conn College, U-Conn, U-Mass-Amherst, Wesleyan, and even
>U-Vermont once (Score, 17-1, we lost, of course), plus lots of other
>teams. When we played against Northeastern, they were very nice. They
>got their 9 goals and then the whole team used opposite sticks and
>still skated circles around us.
Wm. G. (Bill) Cumming Phone (413) 774-1448
Girls' Varsity Ice Hockey Coach Fax (413) 772-1129
Deerfield Academy email:email@hidden
Deerfield, MA 01342 www.deerfield.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:55:18 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: equal time vs. skill
<< At 09:34 AM 12/08/99 -0400, email@hidden wrote:
> I
> find that the boys team tend to be more fair then the girls
> teams. On all the girls teams I've played on it's always
> equal time and it should be about skill level. >>
Well, it really depends on what you consider to be *fair.*
If you are on a competitive team (e.g. HS, college, NHL, or US National Team,
etc.) then it is *fair* that the ice time goes to the better players. No
question about it.
Speaking on behalf of the lesser-skilled dorks, I consider equal time to be
fair - for many reasons.
1) At the lower levels (and younger ages) not everybody's skills develop as
quickly. Some kids take to the ice like ducks to water, while other kids
take longer to hone their skills. If the lesser skilled kids don't get the
ice time in a real game situaion, this will only inhibit their development as
a player even further.
2) At the lower levels sports are not so much about *competitiveness* as
they are about children (or adults) learning a new sport, enhancing their
skills, learning team play, making freinds, and, above all, having fun. As
one of the *outstanding* soccer players (as in, out-standing on the
sidelines) on the Thompson Jr. HS Soccer Team in 1977, I can assure you that
this certainly is NOT fun. I went to every practice, worked just as hard as
everybody else, but I was not as *skilled* as the other players. After 5
weeks of standing on the sidelines, and not seeing more than 10 minutes of
game time in those 5 weeks, I came home in tears. I gave my jersey back to
the coach the next day, and that was the end of my soccer career. I
certainly do not think that this was *fair.*
I played hoops in a town league for years, and every kid got to play in every
game. Some played more than others, but certainly not to the point where any
kid ever left a game (or quit a team) in tears because they were *not good
enough* to play.
3) 2 years ago, at the age of 32, I decided that I wanted to learn how to
play ice hockey. I did nto even know how to skate. I took all kinds of
clinics, and was on the ice 3 or 4 times a week for an entire summer. When
the fall came around and it was time for me to join a team, I found a team
- - the Brooklyn Blades - with a fantastic philosophy that included that
everyone gets equal ice time. Everyone pays the same amount, so everyone
should play the same amount.
Well, let me tell you if it were not for this *equal ice time* philosophy,
and if the ice time went to only the more skilled players, I seriously doubt
that I would have seen any ice time for at least the first 4 months. I
couldn't stop, unless I hit the boards or hit another player. Forget about
skating backwards. The puck was something to bat away as quickly as it came
to me.
It was very hard being the slowest one on the team. But, everyone on the
team supported each other, and cheered each other on. The more expereinced
players took the time to explain things to me (and otehr *lesser skilled*
players.) In my very first officiated game (it was actually an officiated
scrimmage) I was playing D with one of our A team players who has been
playing for years. Between each shift, she would help me out - tell me
what I did right, and give me a few pointers on things I could work on. Not
for one split second did I EVER have the feeling that I should not be on the
ice with her, becasue I was not as good as she was.
We all wanted the same thing - to go out there and have fun. (and win
occassionaly!) We wanted to see our skiils improve individually, and as a
team. wihtout the equal ice time, this would never be possible.
About the only thing I did right at first was have a sense of where I was
supposed to be. Of course, because I could barley skate, I could not
actually GET TO where I was supposed to be, but I had the right idea.
Along with this territory, however, was the opportunity for me to improve the
skills that I actually did have. I learned how to stop (becuase I kept
getting thrown in the box for "checking" or "roughing" becuase I used other
people to stop.) Without the sense of urgency created by being in the game
situation, (not wanting to let my teammates down, and not wanting to make
them continously go on the penalty kill because of my lack of skill) it would
have taken much longer for my skills to develop. With the encouragment of
my teammtes and coach, I kept going out there and trying, and trying, and
trying. Eventually, it paid off. Things started to click. I got my first
goal. It was the game-winning goal, with 30 seconds left in the game. A
backhander, top shelf. (to this very day, I have no idea how I pulled THAT
one off!!) Wihtout the opportunity to play in the games, even though my
skill level was much lower than everyone else's, my skills would NEVER have
improved.
I, personally, do not think it's fun to have to take the time to travel to a
game and go through the effort of getting dressed just to sit on the bench.
Even though everybody likes to win, it is no fun to win unless everyone on
the team is part of that win.
Jill
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:25:35 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: equal time vs. skill
>I seriously doubt that I would have seen any ice time for at least the first
4 months. >I couldn't stop, unless I hit the boards or hit another player.
Well, the first time I ever played ice hockey (December 21, 1998) was
only the 2nd time I had ever ice skated, and I managed not to make a complete
idiot of myself. Although, after 8 months of playing ice hockey, I still have
not been able to hockey stop. I can stop, using the T-stop from roller hockey
(which is kinda slow, sometimes), and I just can't get out of that habit. But
I really do need to learn how to stop, because if I miss the puck I have to
skate in a circle to go get it, and by then, the other team is already on it.
In outdoor roller hockey we all got 3 minutes shifts, and we weren't
allowed to change lines except every 3 minutes, unless someone was hurt.
Sometimes that was kinda long, especially if players were missing and you had
to double shift. But it was definetly helpful, and you could see the
improvement throughout the season. In indoor roller hockey, we pretty much
got equal time, except during power plays, penalty kills, or if we were down
1 with a couple minutes left, the coach would put out the more experienced
players. And in ice hockey we got equal time, although again, usually during
power plays or penalty kills we'd put out the better players. Well that and
we had lots of bad line changes, one line would be out 5 minutes, and the
next would be out only a minute and a half. And so anyways, I think I've
contributed more than my fair share lately.
Jennie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:44:37 -0700
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Equal time vs. skill
- -----Original Message-----
From: Debbie Cottrell [mailto:email@hidden]
Sent: August 13, 1999 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: FW: equal time vs. skill
><< At 09:34 AM 12/08/99 -0400, email@hidden wrote:
> > I
> > find that the boys team tend to be more fair then the girls
> > teams. On all the girls teams I've played on it's always
> > equal time and it should be about skill level. >>
If you're so concerned about it, sign up for a boys team...You'll find out
in a hurry just how "fair" equal time feels when you're sitting on the bench
watching the two or three all-star boys eating up all of your ice time. Not
to mention all the politics that you get tangled up with (the coaches son, a
well known kid v. newcomer, boys v. girls) :)
Girl hockey players only have one place to go when they "grow up" right now
- - the Olympic team. There's only one per country...How many girls is that?
So, instead of placing the importance on the fastest and the strongest
survival thing, I think coaches are looking at the survival of the sport. If
women's hockey is going to grow, it needs the masses to play. In order for
that to happen you're going to have to ice a lot of less skilled
players...hence, equal ice time at the girls level on up.
Once womens professional leagues are set up and doing well, once people are
taking womens hockey seriously, I think then you'll see the same sad system
set in place for girls hockey that exists in boys hockey right now..."You're
eight, you're small and just starting to play...no, thanks, we're looking
for big, fast, already skilled...Next!"
Debbie
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #477
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