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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #475
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Wednesday, August 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 475
In this issue:
girls, boys & locker rooms......
Locker room changing
Re: Locker room changing
*girls playin' with the boys* thread...
I repent!
girls playing with the boys
Re: I repent!
Re: I repent!
Re: I repent!
Dale City Tournament
Re: girls playing with the boys
Re: girls playing with the boys
Re: girls playing with the boys
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Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:53:57 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: girls, boys & locker rooms......
In a message dated 8/11/99 8:49:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
<<
My question is what do you do about locker rooms? The ice rink that I
spend the most time at only has four locker rooms, which are in constant
use. Either the women change in the bathroom or change in the same room
as the guys. This isn't too much of a problem because the locker rooms
don't contain showers and nobody get completely naked. However, the rink
where I play stick and puck, there are two locker rooms with showers in
each of them. The guys usually get there first and so I get stuck
changing in the hall. I compensate for this by wear spandex and a t-shirt
under my equipment. I'm just wondering if anybody has any comments about
this. >>
I recently attened the Can Am Adult hockey camp. There were only about 3 or
4 women on each team.
Each team was given a team locekr room. But they did provide a "women's"
lcoker room down the hall. Well, me and the otehr women sauid "forget THAT"
this is OUR team and we are changing in OUR locker room. (meaning, with the
rest of the team.)
Before anyone got nekkid, the coach gave a little schpeel (sp?) about how the
option for the women;s locker room was there, and if anyone was uncomfortable
to let him know. Afetr a few of the guys said that they were OK with it, all
the women said that we were OK with it. The coach then said that last year,
there was one guy who had a problem with it. I then said "well, if it is
just one guy, then HE could use the separate locker room." Everyone laughed,
coach said "good point" and everyone was fine after that!
Since we were all adults, and there really was nothing that nobody had not
seen before, there really were no issues with us getting changed in front
of each other.
Jill
# 77 LI Hurricanes
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:17:51 -0600
From: Shawn
Subject: Locker room changing
>My question is what do you do about locker rooms? The ice rink that I
>spend the most time at only has four locker rooms, which are in constant
>use.
I captained one team this summer and played on another - both coed. In
both leagues, everyone changes in the same locker room (showers were in a
separate room at both rinks). For the league I captained, I explained to
everyone before the first game that there are 4 locker rooms and 4 teams so
there wouldn't be an option of having a separate room for the men (since it
was a women's league turned coed the men were the outnumbered gender).
Besides the fact that I didn't feel that we could be a team if 6 of our 15
players were somewhere else before the game. In any case, no one cared.
People generally wear something under their uniforms - spandex shorts &
tshirt or whatever - and we are all adults.
I would think if someone is overly shy, then change to a point where you
are comfortable in the bathroom (or where ever) and then join your team in
the locker room. Even in an in-house league without coaches, people still
need to feel part of the team. It's hard to do that if you only join them
on the bench.
Shawn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:56:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "J.E. Hamer"
Subject: Re: Locker room changing
I see my question has gotten a few people going. Personally, I change in
the same room as the guys. At first, I wouldn't, but after awhile they
said it wasn't a big deal so I went in. In my case, I was the only female
on the team and more than half the teams in our league are all male.
Nobody's outright said to me that they have a problem with a girl out on
the ice. I must admit that there are some games where I get bumped around
more than the rest of my team and others where I don't get touched.
Luckily, this is a non-checking league and most hits aren't that bad
minus the one concussion I got. I also figure that I get bumped into more
because I'm the smallest on my team and even I wouldn't want to go up
against some of my teammates.
J.E.
________________________________________
J.E. Hamer
Department of Biostatistics
University of North Carolina
(w)919-966-6094
(h)919-933-1448
http://jhamer.homepage.com
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
GO STATE! BEAT WILDCATS!
JOE PATERNO GOES FOR 308!
________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:59:54 -0600
From: Shawn
Subject: *girls playin' with the boys* thread...
I will preface my $0.02 by saying this is all non-checking hockey that I
play. I've played with a women's competitive travel team, an all women's
in-house league, a "coed" in-house league (women's league with men added to
fill out the teams), a Rec in-house league, and drop-in hockey. And all
this in the < 1yr since I've started playing so in no way am I the best
person on the ice in any of these situations. Now with that said....
When considering the in-house leagues, I definitely prefer playing with men
on the teams. I like the challenge. Once in a league situation I don't
see people playing differently against women. It does happen in drop-in
(usually more of the slowing down/backing off of the women) but once
there's pride on the line gender usually takes a back seat. There are
jerks out there but they exist in both sexes and are generally not
representative of an entire team, just an individual. Besides, what comes
around goes around. The goalie who called his team a bunch of p*ssies for
getting behind to the girls (our Rec team is about 1/3 women), lost to us.
He wasn't too happy to shake my hand after that game :)
I also appreciate the knowledge of the game that I see in the leagues that
include men, specifically that non-checking does not equal non-contact.
There was a lot of catty-ness to the women's league due to what I believe
is a misunderstanding of the game. I think since it was a "no experience
necessary" league there was a great deal of naivity regarding what sort of
contact was acceptable. I had people calling to the ref for penalties for
lifting their stick in front of the net - or even for poke checking. Other
times in the "coed" league, women would play physically against the men but
not expect them to play physically in return. I do my fair share of
knocking people down in front of the net (I play defense), but I do expect
the same in return.
In general though, you need to play where you want to play. One of the
best women on the competitive women's team doesn't feel comfortable playing
in a male dominated league. She could surely play with them but chooses
not to. Others, like me, prefer the more physical game of the male
dominated Rec league. If I had a daughter playing, I would leave it up to
her to decide what she feels comfortable doing. There are opportunities
for women/girls now to play on a competitive team of only women/girls - and
to go on to play on all women's teams at the college level. So she's not
missing out anymore by foregoing the boy's teams. But let her decide her
hockey goals are and how she would best achieve them - while still having
fun along the way of course!
Shawn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:19:45 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: I repent!
Ok, I am properly scolded for letting the guys go in front of me in line!!!!
The only exscuse I have it that I am in a different situation here. Just a
local drop-in roller hockey time..... mixed levels of players..very few
women. And the women with better hockey skills don't do it, just me, as a
beginner. And I have to mention that some of the guys scold me for doing it
too. I just find it scary to be out in the middle of their first frenzy of
play time.
I would really like to learn to be more agressive and have less fear. I have
worked hard to not automatically say "sorry" every time I bump into someone
on the floor! But other times I really think I could get into the whole
checking thing...but it's not allowed here. I'm big enough that I could
really take some of these guys out, and there's times that would be very
satisfying. (like the neanderthall that was disparaging his wife one day
with "all she has to do after work is take care of the two little girls...how
hard can that be?" )
Thanks for the scold, i needed it! laura
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:26:45 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: girls playing with the boys
Last season I played on a highly skilled girls travel team. While I was
happy to be on that because of the tournament opportunities and all, there
was something missing in the locker room and on the ice. Many of my
teammates had known each other previously, and me being the newbie on the
squad, never really felt welcomed. I had thought perhaps that was a result
of me being a goalie (I tend to segregate myself a little before games for
concentration purposes), but after a while I realized that that wasn't the
problem. It still seems, to me at least, that many girls have an attitude
like "look at me, im a girl and I play hockey, ha!"... Thats great when used
in the right spirit, but many of the girls Ive played with or against have
elevated themselves to some "higher" level because they play.. and some are
just plain snotty. ON the other hand, the boy's midget team that I'm on now
(and again, im a newbie) has none of that. No one thinks they're special
because they play- sure, they have the usual male attitude of "lets go out
there and kick some a**", but I would take that anyday over what I got on the
girls team. I'm off to play for a women's team in college in 15 days (!!!),
and I'm hoping to have a much different experience than here.
As far as the physical aspect goes, the only differences I've noted are
sanctioned by the rules. And- the guys seem to have more fun.
Amy
BU Womens' Ice Terriers
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:32:21 -0400
From: Louise
Subject: Re: I repent!
At 01:19 PM 11/08/1999 -0400, email@hidden wrote:
>Ok, I am properly scolded for letting the guys go in front of me in line!!!!
>The only exscuse I have it that I am in a different situation here. Just a
>local drop-in roller hockey time..... mixed levels of players..very few
>women. And the women with better hockey skills don't do it, just me, as a
>beginner. And I have to mention that some of the guys scold me for doing it
>too. I just find it scary to be out in the middle of their first frenzy of
>play time.
Actually, I interpreted this comment much differently than the other people
who responded. I play on a women's rec team, and I usually pace myself
well to be able to play as hard at the end of the game as I do at the
beginning. When I occasionally play pick-up hockey with men, I always get
surprised by the way that most of them play the first few minutes at a
really rapid pace, then get tired out. I don't know whether it's a "men"
thing, or something about playing with people they don't know and are
trying to impress ... but I decided after the last time, that I'd be much
better able to keep up, and I'd have a better time, if I sat out the first
shift. Then I'd be fresh and they wouldn't.
I took your comment as strategy, not as being intimidated. It made sense
to me.
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:36:15 -0400
From: Amy Antonucci
Subject: Re: I repent!
At 01:19 PM 8/11/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Ok, I am properly scolded for letting the guys go in front of me in
line!!!!
>The only exscuse I have it that I am in a different situation here. Just a
>local drop-in roller hockey time..... mixed levels of players..very few
>women. And the women with better hockey skills don't do it, just me, as a
>beginner. And I have to mention that some of the guys scold me for doing it
>too. I just find it scary to be out in the middle of their first frenzy of
>play time.
Well I think in this case, once you become more confident, you'll be
anxious to get out there rathar than find it scary. I remember my first
couple shifts I was more than willing to let someone go ahead of me. (Which
had to be a guy since there were only 2 women in the league, and the other
woman was a goalie)
>I would really like to learn to be more agressive and have less fear. I
have
>worked hard to not automatically say "sorry" every time I bump into someone
>on the floor!
I think the more agression, less fear will come in time. The agression
though you'll have to work on a little. Make sure you don't just hang back
and wait for the puck to come to you...or even for your opponent to come to
you (he's not comin'.. :) (Lots of my teammates have that problem)
But other times I really think I could get into the whole
>checking thing...but it's not allowed here. I'm big enough that I could
>really take some of these guys out, and there's times that would be very
>satisfying. (like the neanderthall that was disparaging his wife one day
>with "all she has to do after work is take care of the two little
girls...how
>hard can that be?" )
ooo..check him..it's worth the penalty.. :-)
>Thanks for the scold, i needed it! laura
Glad to oblige :)
Amy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:04:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "J.E. Hamer"
Subject: Re: I repent!
> Actually, I interpreted this comment much differently than the other people
> who responded. I play on a women's rec team, and I usually pace myself
> well to be able to play as hard at the end of the game as I do at the
> beginning. When I occasionally play pick-up hockey with men, I always get
> surprised by the way that most of them play the first few minutes at a
> really rapid pace, then get tired out. I don't know whether it's a "men"
> thing, or something about playing with people they don't know and are
> trying to impress ... but I decided after the last time, that I'd be much
> better able to keep up, and I'd have a better time, if I sat out the first
> shift. Then I'd be fresh and they wouldn't.
>
I guess it's a good idea to wait if you want to strategize, but don't hide
at the end of the bench. I don't know how it works with anybody else's
team, but on my coed team we have some pairing that are almost the same
every game. Our captain knows who work well together and then he decides
which line goes out first. I think stamina also has to do with a persons
mentality and physical strength. If you feel you can play more, then
you're usually not as tired. Also playing good position hockey compared
to run and gun can save some energy.
J.E.
________________________________________
J.E. Hamer
Department of Biostatistics
University of North Carolina
(w)919-966-6094
(h)919-933-1448
http://jhamer.homepage.com
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
GO STATE! BEAT WILDCATS!
JOE PATERNO GOES FOR 308!
________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:12:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "J.E. Hamer"
Subject: Dale City Tournament
Does anybody know when the Dale City Ice Hockey Tournament is? Members of
my team thought it was sometime in September.
J.E.
________________________________________
J.E. Hamer
Department of Biostatistics
University of North Carolina
(w)919-966-6094
(h)919-933-1448
http://jhamer.homepage.com
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
GO STATE! BEAT WILDCATS!
JOE PATERNO GOES FOR 308!
________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:39:56 -0700
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: Re: girls playing with the boys
>>>>I'm off to play for a women's team in college in 15 days (!!!)
>>>>BU Womens' Ice Terriers
That is SOOOOO awesome!
I graduated from college quite some time ago and there was no college hockey
period, let alone women's hockey in California at that time.
Oh how I yearn for the opportunity that you are about to take advantage of.
Good luck and skate hard.
- --
Megan Bryant
Rhythm & Hues
310 448 7551
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:36:05 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: girls playing with the boys
<< It still seems, to me at least, that many girls have an attitude like
"look at me, im a girl and I play hockey, ha!"... >>
I would say, I have that attitude, but not out on the ice or when playing.
More when I'm at school, or out somewhere else. Because nobody would really
think of me as an athletic person, and not popular either. People kinda show
some respect, around my school at least, because theres only about 10 people
out of the 1800 at school that play hockey, and being the only girl that does
play, they think its cool.
> But other times I really think I could get into the whole checking
thing...but it's not > allowed here.
When I played roller hockey (non-checking) with mostly guys, I could
"check" a guy into the boards and not get called for it. A guy could "check"
another guy or a girl and get called for it. So maybe the refs were a little
prejudiced on making the calls in our league. There were times where I was
sure I checked the guy too hard, and was waiting for the whistle, but it
never came. Of course, I've never gotten a penalty, I've probably deserved a
couple (I slammed my stick into a players face once, good thing we have
masks, and in roller hockey I was warned a couple of times about elbowing)
But I usually I catch myself before the ref does. My theory is, why should I
put my team down a player for some stupid trip or whatever.
>I'm off to play for a women's team in college in 15 days (!!!)
>I graduated from college quite some time ago and there was no college hockey
>period, let alone women's hockey in California at that time. Oh how I yearn
for the >opportunity that you are about to take advantage of.
Being 16, I feel kinda lucky that there are the opportunities out there.
But at the same time, I feel I was born about 5 years too early. Just last
year, I would've never thought I'd be playing ice hockey. Now 8 months later
I've got people on me, trying to convince me to try out for the competitive
team. And its weird, because I can't really decide if I want to try out or
not. I most likely will end up going though. Maybe its the whole tryout
process, I've never been good at those sort of things. I get nervous, and
trip everywhere, and lose the puck/ball. I get that way in warming up too, I
always lose the puck. So anyways, I'm getting off subject again...
Jennie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:58:11 PDT
From: "Candi Angulo"
Subject: Re: girls playing with the boys
I have played hockey for the last four years. The majority of that time has
been playing predominately with men. As with any kind of sport you have
people that are just flat out jerks - and it is not gender specific!
Here is what I have noticed about myself playing with men versus playing
with women. I am naturally aggressive. Now that doesn't mean that I go out
after people - what it means is that if you have the puck and are skating
with it and I am in your way, you are going to have to go through me because
I am not going to get out of your way. I also won't give up fighting with
you along the boards for the puck. Now, I am not proud of this fact, but I
will do retaliation shots at people that take cheap shots at me or at anyone
on my team. Please understand that I am not saying this is right, but it is
just who I am.
All of that said -- I have played with all men, all women and several mixed
teams. I always play my game - at least that is my intent. However, I have
noticed that some of the best games I have ever played have been in games
where I was playing with men. I never tell myself that there is a
difference in any game that I play - I just go to play, but I have noticed
over the years that I just push myself harder when playing with the men. I
think it is because the men that I play with are usually at a higher level
than I am and it makes me work harder; its not that the women I skate with
aren't good - some of them are so good it is scary, but for some reason,
even though I want to play as hard with them and think I am playing the
same, the reality of the situation is is that I don't.
For the most part, they guys that I have played with over the years hve been
great - most of them don't make the distinction that I am a female. I am
just a hockey player who has a job on the ice - sometimes I do a good job
sometimes a bad job but either way its my responsibility to do my part and
if for some reason I can't, they try to back me up which is exactly what I
do for them.
Candi Angulo
#21 (currently unable to play hockey but hopeful for a return sometime in
the future)
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End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #475
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