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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #215
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Monday, May 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 215
In this issue:
Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: Equipment Salvage
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Hayley / Cammi
size as a success criteria
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: Hayley
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Just had to be said...=)
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: Hayley
RE: Hayley Wickenheiser
D.C. teams
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Should women be able to play men's sports?
Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
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Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:02:45 EDT
From: Kittencat3
Subject: Hayley Wickenheiser
I just spent an hour tracking this one down...and the ONLY place I could find
it was on Canoe. It's not on AOL, it's not on the Flyers' web site, and it's
not in the Philadelphia Inquirer sports section. The only mention of the
Flyers in the Inquirer today was their attempt to sign a defenseman named Ryan
Bast without paying compensation to Calgary.
If Wickenheiser really has been offered a try out at the prospects camp, I
wish her luck. However, I sure would like to see this in the *Philadelphia*
papers, which one would think would be reporting this.
Lisa Evans
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 21:09:22 EDT
From: DAT BYTES
Subject: Re: Equipment Salvage
In a message dated 98-05-24 16:44:02 EDT, email@hidden writes:
<< >3. Call your insurance company.
2. Get tough with your insurance companies. They should cover anything
that was damaged in a broken pipe flood. They do squat for the act of God
type floods. Also, if the theives do enough damage to your car-break
windows, scratch paint and dismember locks - they should cover stolen
equipment. They cover other things taken from cars. What is it, taking
hockey equipment is punishment enough?
Debbie
>>
I am not an insurance expert or naything, but I think that if you get off-
premise insurance the hockey gear (and other stuff in your car) can be
covered.
Jill
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:43:57 -0700
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Lisa said:
>If Wickenheiser really has been offered a try out at the prospects >camp, I
wish her luck.
So do I. Looks like she didn't do the shying away that Cammi Granato did
from the Islanders, when she was offered a similar opportunity. Different
characters, I guess. Sure, there'll be novelty publicity about this, but
what the hell. Hayley will probably go into it full bore...I'm sure she's
lifting weights as we speak...If she gets banged up, I think at the very
least she'll earn some respect for the women's game. Good stuff.
Phil, Victoria, BC
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 07:41:41 EDT
From: Goneskatin
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
If the talking heads announcing yesterday's game are right ("average NHL
player is 6'1" and 200lbs), it won't matter how much weight Hayley lifts.
Also, playing in non-checking leagues all your career doesn't prepare you for
some one like Kasparaitis, or Hatcher! I think its a nice gesture to invite
her, but it ultimately does nothing for women's hockey.
Don't get me wrong, playing with men does develop another skill level. And I'm
sure Hayley has thrown a check or two in her career. The physics of forward
speed added to someone over 6 feet cannot be ignored, particularly if they are
in ill humor. And those numbers (crash impact) are gender neutral. I'm no
engineer, but in trauma medicine the result of someone 200lbs going 20 mph is
4000lbs of force.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:00:51 EDT
From: Goneskatin
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Whups!...hit the send button too soon!
Calculating Hayley's weight using the same formula 180lbs X forward speed
20mph yields 3600lbs, for a deficit of 400lbs force, not in her favor. Body
armour can distribute the effects of the impact fairly well, but cannot negate
the injuries that are known to occur with rapid deceleration, coming to a
quick stop. These are known in a triad 1) brain-bruising from hitting skull
during rapid deceleration, 2) liver-from flinging forward on ligament, 3)
heart- aortic tear from ligament left over from fetal circulation.
So while I also agree it is an honor to be invited to train with an NHL team,
I don't hold any aspirations to see women competing in the NHL just yet.
Perhaps after a generation of 6' plus women have come up in checking leagues?
Terry P.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:27:50 EDT
From: DAT BYTES
Subject: Hayley / Cammi
In a message dated 98-05-24 22:53:04 EDT, email@hidden writes:
<< So do I. Looks like she didn't do the shying away that Cammi Granato did
from the Islanders, when she was offered a similar opportunity. Different
characters, I guess. Sure, there'll be novelty publicity about this, but
what the hell. Hayley will probably go into it full bore...I'm sure she's
lifting weights as we speak...If she gets banged up, I think at the very
least she'll earn some respect for the women's game. Good stuff.
Phil, Victoria, BC >>
Hey Bag-Boy -
CAMMI "SHYING AWAY???!!!" I don't think so. First of all she declined the
opportunity for some very good reasons:
1) she thought it was just a "publicity stunt" - which I would probably have
to agree with.
2) I also think that it would have interfered with ther training for the
Olympics. Which WAS a very real - not just a "publicity stunt" (see reason #
1).
3) As talented as Cammi is, the laws of physics dictate that she would
probably get crushed - could you imagime Tie Domi putting a body check on her?
At 5' 7" and 140 pounds, it is not a good idea for her to be out there.
While it would have been neat for her to train with the Isles', but actually
playing in the NHL is a whole differnet game. Cammi is no dummy - and she did
not "shy away" from anything. She made the right decision.
4) While at lower levels of chceking leagues, (and no-checking leagues) I do
nto see any problem with girls and boys playing on the same teams. But when
it the guys become that much bigger, and the intensity that much higher (i.e.
the intensity of the NHL) the men are out there to put the hurt on anyone they
can. Sure - one can argue that Cammi (or any other woman) can "learn to
skate around them," but realistically, even the fastest and the best players
get hit. And get hit hard. Again - thinking about the consequences of a Domi
hit on Granato. And a jerk like that would make any woman out there an
instant target.
I just hope that the pool of talent in the women;s game becmes large enough so
that we can have "a league of our own."
And one mo' thing, has there actually been any real confirmation on this
Wickenhauser rumor? Seems as though nobody actually identified WHICH Philly
papers reproted this.
Jill
# 77 Brooklyn Blades
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 06:45:29 -0700
From: James and Jeanne Wade
Subject: size as a success criteria
Well taken points about women in hockey. I think your comments are
relevant and applicable to males in many instances also. The
requirements of play at the NHL level should never deter anyone from
playing the game and enjoying it. Now, pray tell, what do you do about
an old women (50+) like me who still likes to mess around out on the
ice. Can't call it playing exactly, but it is fun nonethless. Hope
your games go well.
Jeanne Wade
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:05:17 -0400
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
I read the article in Canoe and Hayley is pleased to skate with the Flyers
in order to move her own game up a notch. Does not seem like a lot of hype
to me and makes a lot of sense. She seemed to have her head on her
shoulders straight about this whole thing which is more of a 'skate-with'
than an NHL 'try-out'. What the Flyers really need is Sarah Tueting to
cover the net, and to fix the sieve problem left by Hextall and Burke.
- --Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:09:22 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg MD
Subject: Re: Hayley
Let's recall that ice hockey is not exclusively a game for very big men.
Big men also have a lot of inertia when they go down and hit the ice after
being elevated up in the air by a clean, low hip check. There are some
relatively mesomorphic men and even a few relatively small men that have
made their mark in the NHL (Theo Fleury is just one who comes to mind and
how big is Paul Kariya?). They have had to make up for size with speed and
cunning and very good hands, play-making and visualizing skills--skills
that Hayley has most likely been working hard to develop.
- --GG
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:08:56 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg MD
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Let's recall that ice hockey is not exclusively a game for very big men.
Big men also have a lot of inertia when they go down and hit the ice after
being elevated up in the air by a clean, low hip check. There are some
relatively mesomorphic men and even a few relatively small men that have
made their mark in the NHL (Theo Fleury is just one who comes to mind and
how big is Paul Kariya?). They have had to make up for size with speed and
cunning and very good hands, play-making and visualizing skills--skills
that Hayley has most likely been working hard to develop.
- --GG
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:41:22 EDT
From: RWingsFoxx
Subject: Just had to be said...=)
A Fast Talker
There was a boy who worked in the produce section of the market. A
man came in and asked to buy half a head of lettuce. The boy told
him that
they only sold whole heads of lettuce, but the man replied that he did
not need a whole head, just a half head. The boy said he would go
ask his manager about the matter.
The boy walked into the back room and said, "there's some idiot out
there who wants to buy only a half a head of lettuce." As he was
finishing saying this he turned around to find the man standing right
behind him, so he added, "And this gentleman wants to buy the other
half. " The manager okayed the deal and the man went on his way.
Later, the manager called on the boy and said, "you almost got
yourself
in a lot of trouble earlier, but I must say I was impressed with the
way
you got yourself out of it. You think on your feet and we like that
around here. Where are you from son?"
The boy replied, "Canada, sir."
"oh, really? why did you leave canada?" asked the manager.
"because there's nothing but whores and hockey players up there." the
boy replied. "Hey! My wife is from Canada!" announced the offended
manager.
The boy replied, "Really! what team did she play for?"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:41:15 EDT
From: RWingsFoxx
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
In a message dated 98-05-25 11:17:59 EDT, email@hidden writes:
<< hockey is not exclusively a game for very big men. >>
Heck Gretzky isn't all that big... I'm pretty sure he's only 5'8".
To name a few more smaller male NHL players, Andy Moog, Mike Vernon, Igor
Larionov, Saku Koivu, and a pretty sure there is a guy who playes for the
Maple Leafs that is only 5'5"....(*sheesh* and they tell us we're small)
- -J
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:47:01 EDT
From: PokeCheck8
Subject: Re: Hayley
email@hidden writes:
<>
email@hidden writes:
<< And one mo' thing, has there actually been any real confirmation on this
Wickenhauser rumor? Seems as though nobody actually identified WHICH Philly
papers reproted this. >>
This story was reported by Ian Wilson and Ken Fidlin of Sun Media.
It's on the Slam! Hockey site, which Alan provided the link for in his e-mail
(Check out: http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyWomen/may23_hwom.html for the full
story.) And for the record- I wish I had a nickel for every time the Boston
Globe neglected to pick up a story pertaining to women's hockey. Just face
it- the only hockey they're writing about now is the Stanley Cup Playoffs- the
rest of the Sports section is devoted to baseball, basketball, golf, even
football!
Alan said he read it in the Vancouver Province. I didn't see any mention that
a PHILLY paper had the story. Here's the AOL link:
Wickenheiser's big-
league shot
There's another story, too- in Hayley's own words, she states her intentions:
http://www.canoe.ca/HockeyWomen/may24_hphi.html
AOL link:
Philadelphia camp a huge challenge
Have a GREAT weekend!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:48:35 EDT
From: PokeCheck8
Subject: RE: Hayley Wickenheiser
In a message dated 5/25/98 11:53:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
<< Heck Gretzky isn't all that big... I'm pretty sure he's only 5'8".
To name a few more smaller male NHL players, Andy Moog, Mike Vernon, Igor
Larionov, Saku Koivu, and a pretty sure there is a guy who playes for the
Maple Leafs that is only 5'5"....(*sheesh* and they tell us we're small) >>
Actually, Wayne Gretzky is 6' tall, weighs 170lbs. He skates in a crouched
position a lot, maybe that is why you think he is shorter.
Sergei Samsonov of the Bruins is one of the "smallest" players- at 5'8",
184lbs. (I've met him in person a few times- and I'd say he is shorter- 5'6"
or so!) He literally gets the crap pounded out of him in each game- but he
has a strong constitution, and that's what matters most of all. I've no doubt
Hayley could make a good attempt at "holding her own" in the NHL- but for how
long? These smaller players take more physical abuse (inch for inch) than the
larger players, and constitution aside- they never have careers as long as the
larger players. Even Pavel Bure, (5'11", 185lbs) for all his strength and
conditioning, admits his injuries are the cumulative effect of getting
"banged-up" by larger players day-to-day.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:13:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rhonda Paprocki
Subject: D.C. teams
Hi,
I have a teammate moving to D.C. Does anyone have a contact number
for the Washington Wolves? Please send it off the list. I have info
on the Chesapeake Bay Lightning (since they have a nice web page), but
would like to give her a couple of numbers.
Thanks
Rhonda
Team Michigan ThunderBlades
**********************************************
Rhonda Paprocki
email@hidden
"The race is not always to the swift....
but to those who keep on running."
**********************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:38:31 EDT
From: Kittencat3
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: weight and height -
If smallish players are at *that* much of a disadvantage, please explain why
it is that Denis Savard had such success for so many years? Or how it is that
Patrice Lefebvre, all 5'5" and 140 pounds of him, consistently is one of the
leading scorers in the IHL? Or Theoren Fleury? Or Bruins checker Rob Dimaio?
If you're fast enough, size doesn't matter. A lot of those big hulking
defensemen can't keep up with the small, fast centers. Upper body strength,
not plain size, is going to be Wickenheiser's problem.
And as for this checking league business - I believe Wickenheiser *did* play
in a checking Tier II league for a couple of years. Anyone have the stats?
Lisa Evans
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:44:28 -0400
From: "Algoma Training Board"
Subject: Should women be able to play men's sports?
Hi! Boy does this message relate to what is going on with
Hayley. In school we are having a debate and my topic
is should women be able to play sports professionally
with men. I'm on the positive side. Any idea's or arguments
would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Carrie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:59:03 EDT
From: Jen29H
Subject: Re: Hayley Wickenheiser
Actually Gretzky is 6 foot, 180 pounds (I just looked it up), but hes not
reallly that big, in his street clothes he looks like a skinny wimp. Goalies
don't really have to be big, since they're not out wiith all the checking,
although they do get the occasional collisions. Chris Terreri is 5'8" 160lbs,
thats not too big. Alexander Korolyuk of the Sharks is only 5'9" 165lbs,
Scott Walker of the Canucks is 5'9" 180lbs. there are a lot of smaller guys
out there, and theres the ones that look like they should be playing
basketball. Of course the Flyers only have one guy under 6 foot (Mike
Sillinger 5'10" 190lbs)
Jennie
to be #29
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #215
*************************************