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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #169
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Tuesday, March 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 169
In this issue:
Troubles with the Men?
Re: Troubles with the Men?
Knocked out on the ice
Re: Troubles with the Men?
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Troubles with the Men?
Re: Trash Talk
spring/summer hockey in Philadelphia area
Re: Troubles with the Men?
Re: Troubles with the Men?
Reffing and Trash etc.
Canadian Women's University Hockey - National Championship Results
Re: Reffing and Trash etc.
Re: Reffing and Trash etc.
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:55:52 EST
From: ChicGoalie
Subject: Troubles with the Men?
Hi! I am just recouperating from some pretty gnarlly injuries I incurred
during a game in my in-line hockey league. This one guy one the opposing
team, he's an older man, smashed into my head, throwing me to the floor and
temporarily knocking me out (we're pretty certain I got a concussion) I got
up, and skated to my bench, then was out skating again on my next scheduled
shift of the game; again this man came up thrashed into me, throwing my legs
out from under me and dropping me to the ground (Pretty certain that I
recieved a broken tailbone from that shot). I have always played hockey with
the guys, and can easily handle the "neccessary roughness" but this was
totally absurd. Everyone who saw it say that he's an"old-school Ice hockey
player, one of the guys that feels that this is a men's sport, and women have
no place in hockey". I've seen him check guys before, but everyone agrees, he
never hits the guys half as hard as he hit me.
Basically, I wanted to know has anyone else ever had a problem like this?
Chantell Graham
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:00:01 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg MD
Subject: Re: Troubles with the Men?
Sounds lika assault to me! First things first. If you lost consciousness,
you should not have gone out again. You should have seen your doctor or
gone to an emergency room. You can really compromise your health by
ignoring such things. Having chipped a tail bone myself, my condolences.
I had trouble sitting, standing, just moving for months.
As to the guy who hit you. I was not kidding when I said it sounded like
assault. Since this was a league, I would speak to the powers that be and
let them deal with the guy. They cannot afford to have people injured on
their time. If several people said that it looked purposeful, and over and
above the requirements of the game, he should be sanctioned, even if the
ref missed the hits.
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:10:31 -0800
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Knocked out on the ice
> Hi! I am just recouperating from some pretty gnarlly injuries I incurred
> during a game in my in-line hockey league. This one guy one the opposing
> team, he's an older man, smashed into my head, throwing me to the floor and
> temporarily knocking me out (we're pretty certain I got a concussion) I got
> up, and skated to my bench, then was out skating again on my next scheduled
> shift of the game;
I was just reading the USA Hockey standards for dealing with concussions.
If you get knocked out on the ice, they say:
Seek medical help immediately for transport from rink ... to the nearest
hospital for medical evaluation. With medical approval, the player may
return to practice only after one full week without symptoms.
It's not a good idea to skate your next shift after being knocked out.
Doctors are learning more about post-concussion syndrome (yes, if you got
knocked out, you got a concussion) and its severity: witness Paul Kariya
and Pat LaFontaine in the NHL. It's not worth risking your health
just to finish out the game.
- -- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:49:21 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Troubles with the Men?
Chantell,
Since you are a goalie, you shouldn't be hit at all, guy or girl. What
penalties did this guy receive for the contact on you?
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 11:22:06 -0800
From: Bec Kemp
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Dave posted:
>Officiating is an apprenticeship. They need to be given a chance to
>make mistakes. If they are going to be critisized and yelled at
>everytime they make a mistake, why would anyone want to continue to
>pursue such an activity?
I am a USA Hockey first year official and understand what Dave is saying.
It doesn't make the game any better for anyone, including the referees,
when all of the trash talk goes on between ANYONE on the ice. My second
weekend reffing a coach yelled at me, "you need to go to reffing school."
I told him "This IS My Reffing School!!!!!!!!!"
It is very difficult to be standing near the blue line on the bench side
while watching for offsides and have a player or a ref scream belittling
comments in your ear. I have decided that I will tolerate none of this and
through the rest of the season I have held a strong stance on this. When
these comments become extremely hostile I simply give an unsportmanlike and
it WORKS!
I've often noticed that when I ref a team that has a mouthy coach 9 times
out of 10 the kids are mouthy and have no respect for anyone either. The
kids do emulate what they are exposed to and I think everyone in the rink
needs to remember this. If you think reffing is so easy you really ought
to try it..........and all for $10. a game! HA!
bec
Bec Kemp
email@hidden
AOL Instant Messenger: beckemp
wherever you go, there you are!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 11:40:58 -0800
From: Liz Johnson
Subject: Re: Troubles with the Men?
It has been my experience that if I play aggressively against guys then
they play aggressively against me. If I cool down a little they don't seem
to be so aggressive.
Now, I feel that the vast majority of guys are cool with women playing with
them but there always seems to be one or two who need to 'give a little
extra' to the women for whatever reason. The first season I played there
was a team full of hot heads with one guy in particular who thought he was
the next coming of Brendan Shanahan (of course if he could skate and shoot
the puck that would have helped him but alas, all he had was muscle-all of
it in his head). I'm 5'3, he was 6'0-ish, he leveled me and when I got up
he started pushing me and cussing me out and trying to get me to fight.
This was a non-checking, non-fighting adult recreational league. Now, I'm
feisty but hardly stupid, I have never been in a fight in my life and
wasn't about to take on this testosterone case. The ref finally stepped in
and stopped the guy. No penalty called on him though.
I have subbed a little in that league since then but I much prefer playing
in the women's leagues now, there are still altercations from time to time
but nothing that severe.
Just my .02,
Liz
At 12:55 PM 3/3/98 EST, ChicGoalie wrote:
>Hi! I am just recouperating from some pretty gnarlly injuries I incurred
>during a game in my in-line hockey league. This one guy one the opposing
>team, he's an older man, smashed into my head, throwing me to the floor and
>temporarily knocking me out (we're pretty certain I got a concussion) I got
>up, and skated to my bench, then was out skating again on my next scheduled
>shift of the game; again this man came up thrashed into me, throwing my legs
>out from under me and dropping me to the ground (Pretty certain that I
>recieved a broken tailbone from that shot). I have always played hockey with
>the guys, and can easily handle the "neccessary roughness" but this was
>totally absurd. Everyone who saw it say that he's an"old-school Ice hockey
>player, one of the guys that feels that this is a men's sport, and women have
>no place in hockey". I've seen him check guys before, but everyone
agrees, he
>never hits the guys half as hard as he hit me.
>Basically, I wanted to know has anyone else ever had a problem like this?
>
>Chantell Graham
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:48:08 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Bec Kemp wrote:
> comments in your ear. I have decided that I will tolerate none of this and
> through the rest of the season I have held a strong stance on this. When
> these comments become extremely hostile I simply give an unsportmanlike and
> it WORKS!
You are right, it normally works. However, it is very difficult for
a 12 or 13 year old official to immediately accept the role of
authority figure. Especially if it is a 40 year old coach yelling at
him or her.
Young officials learn quickly that it is much easier to ignore an
infraction than to actually stop play and assess a penalty. This way
the play continues and people soon forget about what just happened.
However, if the official raises his or her arm and stops play to
assess a penalty, all of a sudden the focus is entirely on the
official. This can be very intimidating.
So, instead of ridiculing officials (regardless of age), let them try
their best and accept that fact that they will do some wrong. At the
same time, use the same philosophy for the players. Cheer them on,
but don't remind them of their mistakes. And finally, let your team
try their best and forget about the other team, or if you have to say
something, praise their efforts.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:08:31 -0500 (EST)
From: email@hidden (Linda K Deno)
Subject: spring/summer hockey in Philadelphia area
Hi everybody,
Several teammates and I from the Penn Women's club team are looking for a
Philadelphia area women's or coed team to play for now that our season is
over. Any help, info, etc would be greatly appreciated!!! We have tried
calling some of the local rinks and have left messages for teams (the
Grizzlies (?) at Hollydell, etc) but have yet to receive any replies.
Thank you very much in advance,
Linda
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:10:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Abby
Subject: Re: Troubles with the Men?
The first time I played with men was in intramurals at Clarkson. I too
ended up with a concussion. Some thought it was intentional and others
didn't. I don't know and haven't thought about it much. I do know that
when I was pleading my case for a women's hockey club in front of the
student senate, the fact that I received a concussion playing with men was
a factor in my success (so I was told later). Whatever it takes, eh?
Now I play pick-up with men at my local arena. I was checked once and I
told the guy, "A little rough for pick-up, don't you think?" He
apologized and said he thought I was somebody else (a guy). Usually if I
get hit (it has never been too bad) I'll make a comment to the offending
player. They usually apologize and it doesn't happen again. I'm
fortunate to be playing with a bunch of guys who are happy with women
playing. The one guy that wasn't skated angrily off the ice and said,
"Maybe we should wear pink jerseys." Oooh, Ow. We never saw him again.
Abby Clabough
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:56:42 EST
From: LuvCLemx22
Subject: Re: Troubles with the Men?
In a message dated 98-03-03 13:29:46 EST, email@hidden writes:
<< Everyone who saw it say that he's an"old-school Ice hockey
player, one of the guys that feels that this is a men's sport, and women have
no place in hockey". I've seen him check guys before, but everyone agrees,
he
never hits the guys half as hard as he hit me. >>
Didn't any of your male teammates come to your defence? If a male player EVER
checked me TWICE as hard as he would another male player all hell would break
loose on the ice, I guarantee it! If noone came to your defence, I would
certainly think about looking for another team.
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:05:23 -0800
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Reffing and Trash etc.
There's a fair amount of "holier than thou" posturing going on here.
Everyone's coming on as pure of heart and would never think of being loud at
a hockey game. Refs and coaches who I happen to know have a history of being
loud in the direction of players and referees are presenting themselves as
moral guardians of the list. It smacks of hypocrisy.
I want to point out that I have never been abusive towards a player or
referee, especially not at any kind of minor hockey level. I think where
we're getting off track is the sizable difference between professional,
adult sport (with spectators who have paid to attend) and little kids
pursuing their dreams, whether as players or referees. At Junior A/Major
Junior level many of these persons are preparing themselves for a career in
professional sport and should be able to understand that emotions can run
high at sporting events. It's part of the territory and part of the
training. You're going to get booed from time to time, eyesight being
questioned, all that. With children, I couldn't agree more that early bad
experiences can be damaging and we need to be as supportive as possible.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:49:05 -0500
From: Andria Hunter
Subject: Canadian Women's University Hockey - National Championship Results
1998 Canadian National Championship (CIAU)
There is more detailed information and statistics available
on my 1998 CIAU Championship for women's hockey web page at:
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria/univ/ciau/nat_1998.html
Congratulations to Concordia University who defeated the University of
Toronto 4-1 to claim the first-ever CIAU Championship for women's
hockey! The CIAU Championship was hosted by Concordia University in
Montreal from February 26 to March 1st 1998. The bronze medal was won
by the University of Quebec a Trois Rivieres who defeated the
University of Guelph by a score of 4-3 in overtime. The University of
Alberta claimed fifth place by winning 10-0 over Saint Mary's.
Pool A:
University of Guelph (OUA Champion)
University of Trois Rivieres (QSSF Host)
Saint Mary's University (AUAA Champion)
Pool B:
University of Alberta (CWUAA Champion)
University of Toronto (OUA 2nd place)
Concordia University (QSSF Champion)
Round Robin Results:
Feb 26: Guelph 2 vs UQTR 2 -- Pool A
Concordia 1 vs Toronto 0 -- Pool B
Feb 27: UQTR 7 vs Saint Mary's 0 -- Pool A
Toronto 2 vs Alberta 2 -- Pool B
Guelph 7 vs Saint Mary's 0 -- Pool A
Concordia 7 vs Alberta 0 -- Pool B
Semi-final/Final Results:
Feb 28: Guelph 0 vs Concordia 3 -- Semi-Final #1
UQTR 0 vs Toronto 3 -- Semi-Final #2
St Mary's 0 vs Alberta 5 -- 5th place final
Mar 1: Guelph 3 vs UQTR 4 -- Bronze Medal (OT)
Concordia 4 vs Toronto 1 -- Gold Medal (EN)
Final Placings:
1.Concordia University (QSSF Champion)
2.University of Toronto (OUA 2nd place)
3.University of Quebec a Trois Rivieres (QSSF Host)
4.University of Guelph (OUA Champion)
5.University of Alberta (CWUAA Champion)
6.Saint Mary's University (AUAA Champion)
CIAU Championship Awards:
Tournament MVP: Corinne Swirsky (Concordia)
Tournament Top Scorer: Jessica Daneau (UQTR)
Tournament All-Star Team:
Goalie: Tracy Cook (Guelph)
Defense: #17? (UQTR), Ali MacMillan (Toronto)
Forward: Coley Dosser (Guelph), Urszula May (Toronto),
#21? (Concordia)
CIAU All-Canadian Banquet Awards:
CIAU Player of the Year: Corinne Swirsky
TSN Award: Karen Kendall
All-Canadian Team:
Goal:
Lesley Jordan, Saint Mary's
Shelly Campbell, Windsor
Defence:
Alana Mullins, Acadia
Delaney Collins, Concordia
Ali MacMillan, Toronto
Colleen Sostorics
Forwards:
Corinne Swirsky, Concordia
Kelly Bechard, Calgary
Tasha Noble, Saint Mary's
Coley Dosser, Guelph
Anne Rodrigue, Concordia
Sue Anne Van Damme, Toronto
Andria Hunter
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| ... She shoots! ...... She scoooooores!!! |
| _ __ |
| ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_ |
| \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\0__/ /| \__) |
| /> /> \ /> . /\ ('\\---' | .| | |
| z z . z z \_. z z z z \_\_\ | | |
| ` ` |_/ |
==============================================================================
| For women's hockey info on the world wide web: http://www.whockey.com/ |
==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:40:28 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Reffing and Trash etc.
Phil,
Phil,
I agree that this type of behaviour is prevalent at major sporting
events. My point is, if we can change the way we perceive things, we
can change this attitude.
What makes it appropriate to question the integrity, the eyesight,
the judgement of an official? Why is that considered acceptable
behaviour? Only because it has been allowed to go on for years.
Doesn't make it right.
To say you don't agree with the decision made is one thing. To yell,
"You're &#$% blind, ref", is completely different. Yet, there are
many people that feel they have that right to verbally abuse someone
because 1.) they paid to be there, 2.) he is supposed to be able to
take it, and 3.) it is part of the game. Where else is this
permissible behaviour?
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:41:23 -0800
From: Judi Stevens
Subject: Re: Reffing and Trash etc.
Dave,
I have been reading the e-mail on this subject and have been amazed at some
of the replies. It all starts with the coach. Bree's coach this year,
does not ALLOW any player or parent 'trash' anyone. The coach played in the
minors, ref's games, and coaches all levels of players.
They did a Thanksgiving tourney and got first place. In the last game, the
parents got out of control and the kids started. When we returned home, he
called a meeting. The coach told the kids and parents that it was totally
unacceptable behavior. He also said that they did not deserve the trophy
for being 'bad sports'. The parents were told that if it happened again,
they would be suspended from attending the next game. He kept his word, the
next time a parent got out of control, they were told not to show up for
the next game.
If he thinks that the ref's are making bad calls, he talks to them. If the
other team 'trash' talks, he tells the kids to put it on the 'scoreboard'.
I know that some of the kids probably still say stuff on the ice but they
know if they get caught they are benched for at least one line. Anyway, the
kids and parents can learn what is acceptable. I for one enjoy the games
more not having to listen to it.
Judi Stevens (Bree's Mom)
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #169
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