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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #168
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Tuesday, March 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 168
In this issue:
Re: Trash Talk
better fitting pants?
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Trash Talk
Roller Hockey Options in Santa Cruz/Monterey Bay Area
girls/womens hockey tournaments
Re: Trash Talk
Re: better fitting pants
Re: [2] Trash Talk
Re: Trash Talk
Re: better fitting pants?
Re: Trash Talk
Re: better fitting pants?
Re: Trash Talk
FW: trash talk
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Trash Talk
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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:33:32 -0800
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Dave said:
>So, are you saying, just because it has been "part of the game" in
>the past, that makes it right?
Part of EVERY game, was the point I was trying to make. I agree that abusive
or (especially) racist commentary should be cracked down on, but a little
gamesmanship is interesting. It's tough to make sport politically correct,
but as a ref you're never going to be close enough to enforce this stuff or
to prevent "crying wolf" incidents from occuring. Then we'll bring foreign
languages into it. Do you know the Russian, Finnish and Japanese
translations for "Your mother wears army boots"?
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:11:00 EST
From: Goneskatin
Subject: better fitting pants?
Hi group!....Can I get some feedback on what pants everyone is wearing?
I have Cooper 2nd hand mens pants that didn't protect me from getting cut 5"
above my knee, falling on a skate this wknd. The pant leg rode up when I went
down on the ice, scrambling in the corner for a loose puck. I have since
checked my legs for other no coverage areas when in a tuck position, and find
that a good 5-6" between the top of the shin pad and the bottom of my pants
becomes exposed when I am in a crouch position. And by "crouch", I mean good
skating form, knees well bent.
I count myself lucky that it was just a 1" gash this time. A puck hitting the
lower part of the thigh above the knee would raise a pretty good bruise. I
plan on cannibalizing some old roller pads to fill in the gap temporarily. The
money saved blowing off the E.R. for stitches will go into new pants.
Any suggestions on brands of pants for women and their coverage areas, both
standing and in crouch position?
Terry
Enough! with the "trash" thread....I don't even read those anymore. I
think it is ABUNDANTLY clear what all the parties meant...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:57:46 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Phil wrote:
> Do you know the Russian, Finnish and Japanese
> translations for "Your mother wears army boots"?
No I don't, but as adults, we should not be encouraging this. I bet
you are the type that figures that yelling at officials is "part of
the game" since it has been going on for years. What is wrong with
identifying when something is wrong and trying to change it?
Dave
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY ASSOCIATION
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:07:09 EST
From: Kittencat3
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
I don't know the Russian for "your mother wears Army boots" (and don't think
it would be much of an insult anyway considering the number of career military
officers who are female), but the worst thing you can call a Russian is
"uncultured."
The worst thing you can say to a Spaniard is "I spit in your mother's milk,"
but unless the Spanish national team somehow crawls out of the Z pool, it
isn't really relevant....
Lisa Evans
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 17:21:51 -0800
From: Tammie Weigl
Subject: Roller Hockey Options in Santa Cruz/Monterey Bay Area
Just a quick query to anyone who might have info.
My husband and I are looking to get into a beginner level roller hockey
league either coed or not. (We both are REALLY rusty after taking a few
years off when our daughter was born..) I know about four years ago,
there were some active clubs in the Santa Cruz area, but I am having a
hard time getting info on any leagues for the summer months.
Does anyone have any useful information or contact numbers they could
send my way?
Thanks!
Tammie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:31:55 -0800
From: Karen Arbour
Subject: girls/womens hockey tournaments
Metro Cup '98 Girls Hockey Classic in Toronto
June 12,13 and 14, 1998
Novice, Atom, Peewee, Bantam, Midget and Senior Recreational Divisions
Guaranteed 4 games, skills competition and MVP awards
For more information e-mail email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:32:44 EST
From: DAT BYTES
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
In a message dated 98-03-02 11:47:48 EST, email@hidden writes:
<<
> It's called "gamesmanship" and adds spice. It's gone on in every sport for
> time immemorial, from the subtle nuances of golf up to the lamentable (but
> inevitable) variants on "your mother wears army boots".
So, are you saying, just because it has been "part of the game" in
the past, that makes it right?
Dave
>>
Talk is talk. And nothing more. You ever hear of "Sticks & Stones??"
If trash talk bothers you, then they got the best of you and they win the
psychologicla edge.
You can handle trash talk in several ways:
1) Let it bother you. Let th opponent get teh psychologicla edge. Go home
& cry becuase someone made fun of you becuase your mommy drove you the game.
2) Come up with a funny answer that will make them laugh & lose
concentration.
3) Come up with worse trash talk & let it perpetuate during the game.
(warning - this could lead to a real fight.)
Sometimes trash talk could work to your advantage. One time this
ratehr alrge defender was giving me a hard time - and knocking me around quite
a bit. I said "Keep doing that & I'm gonna f---you up real bad." She said
"Are you really?" (I guess she was trying strategy # 2.) I responded with "Do
you really want to find out?" She left me alone after that. :-)
4) Ignore it. And let the scoreboard do the talking for you.
Jill
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 19:49:57 -0500
From: Madeleine Oldham
Subject: Re: better fitting pants
Oh goody!
I'm so excited you asked this question, because I get to ramble about
my new pants, which I am very excited about.
About two weeks ago, some teammates and I went up to Canada on what we
termed "a major gear extravaganza." My mission was to buy pants. (I
ended up buying pants, skates, a stick [of which, amazing as it may
sound, I hadn't bought a new one in 11 years] and a bag - I don't know
what came over me...)
Anyway, I was all excited to try on the Louisville women's pants
because I had been struggling to get Tacklas over my hips for a few
years now. So I try them on and a teammate shouts from across the
store, "Hey Madeleine, you look like you just took a huge dump!" I
would have phrased it differently, but they really didn't work. There
was way too much material and not nearly enough padding.
The attitude of the salespeople seemed to be that since there's no
checking that women don't need as much protection, but I think this is
rubbish. It makes me wonder if they've ever watched a women's game.
Less protection indeed!
So, to make a long story short, I ended up buying the most expensive
pair of pants they had, but they are well worth it. They're Tacklas
once again, but they're excellent. Plenty of padding in all the right
places. They are still a bit of a struggle in the hip area, but once
they're on they're perfect. I tried on every brand in the store, and
found that these were the only ones that both fit well and gave me the
kind of protection I was looking for.
The guy in the store was big on making sure the pants were long
enough. It sounds like your current pair are too short, hence the gap
when you crouch.
So, that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth...
Happy shopping!
- -madeleine
> Goneskatin wrote:
> > Any suggestions on brands of pants for women and their coverage areas, both
> > standing and in crouch position?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:47:31 EST
From: DAT BYTES
Subject: Re: [2] Trash Talk
In a message dated 98-03-02 18:45:13 EST, email@hidden writes:
Phil wrote:
> Do you know the Russian, Finnish and Japanese
> translations for "Your mother wears army boots"?
****I believe the refs (or whatever they are called) at Wimbledon are aware of
such foreign phrases. And I think that Goran Ivanisovich once got called
for swearign in his native language. But - let's not kid ourselves here-
Hockey is nothing like tennis - as much as our friend Dave would like it to
be.
<<
No I don't, but as adults, we should not be encouraging this. I bet
you are the type that figures that yelling at officials is "part of
the game" since it has been going on for years. What is wrong with
identifying when something is wrong and trying to change it?
>>
****Lighten up, dude. I think the concern shoudl lie with not encouraging
fist, stick & whatever else fighting. That is what truly gives the game a
bad rep. Dont; worry so much about name-calling. Phil is right. It
happenes in EVERY game. But how many fist fights do you see in golf or
baseball? Almost non-existent.
Just go out there, close your ears, and play the game. If a little name
calling is going to get you that upset, then perhaps you should should not be
playing competitive sports.
Jill
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:33:24 EST
From: CammiFan21
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
it is
"your mother wears RED Army boots"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:56:11 EST
From: LuvCLemx22
Subject: Re: better fitting pants?
In a message dated 98-03-02 18:58:35 EST, email@hidden writes:
<< Enough! with the "trash" thread....I don't even read those anymore.
I
think it is ABUNDANTLY clear what all the parties meant...
============================================================= >>
Amen to that! Now about Pants.......... Last year I came across a brand of
pants called "Prostar" in my local pro shop at the rink and they are the most
protective pants I've ever had or even seen. I've never seen them in any of
the catalogs I get, so if anyone knows who this company is, please let me
know, I want another pair. They are very substantial, have spent about 15-20
hours a week with me on the ice and they still look new and all the padding is
in place. I compared them to Louisville, Tackla and CCM when I was shopping
and there was no comparison. They are clearly "checking" pants and worth
checking out.
Jackie - #22 - She Shoooooots, Scoooooores and Trash talks every once in a
while!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:06:20 -0800
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Dave:
Geez, I'd hate to think that referees as a breed are didactic, humourless,
concrete thinking control freaks, so lighten up, why don't you?
>I bet you are the type that figures that yelling at officials is "part of
>the game"
Oh, Dave, I'm going to have to consult my solicitor about that line.
Defamation...quite unbecoming a senior official of Hockey Canada.
(Note to Chuq: ONLY KIDDING...no legal action!!)
Hey, I know a few referees (my wife will be taking training next year) and
it's normal to yell (in a general sense at least) when you feel your team is
being shortchanged. Nothing personal, but you know the old adage about the
heat in the kitchen...
Phil, Victoria, BC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 02:22:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Abby
Subject: Re: better fitting pants?
I just bought a new pair of the Louisville women's pants. I've only worn
them once, but I love them. They are longer and have much more protection
over the tailbone tahn anything else I've ever worn - especially important
for a defenseman. (You know how sometimes you jerk awake because you feel
like you're falling, my version of that dream is that I am skating
backwards and catch an edge - really!) Maybe they do look like I "took a
dump", but I feel very confident in them. I find them harder to get on
because I have to pull the smaller waist over my larger butt, but that's
the point of women's pants. I think it must be the same for pants as it
is for chest protectors - some women need the ones made for women and some
don't.
Abby Clabough
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:15:33 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg MD
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
> > It's called "gamesmanship" and adds spice. It's gone on in every sport for
> > time immemorial, from the subtle nuances of golf up to the lamentable (but
> > inevitable) variants on "your mother wears army boots".
Everyone is sick of it, but I'm slow somedays. We are talking about adults
and trash talk. They can ignore or escalte or be humorous, but what about
the kids? They don't have the maturity for all of the above, and some kids
are really hurt. Teasing is abusive. It erodes a child's self esteem and
builds up hostility. It drives some kids right off the ice and away from
hockey. If the adults continue to bad mouth their opponents, then the kids
will copy them. Rather than making hockey a healthy safe place, we make it
dangerous psychologically and physically for our kids. So if you think
that dissing some guy about getting a ride with his mother to the rink is
not dangerous, remember there may be someone watching and listening to you.
That kid may go out and copy your behaviour. Then remember kid who is at
the receiving end of nasty taunts of the first kid. It doesn't do much for
the growth of the kid who thinks it is ok to bully another person on the
ice either.
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 07:22:45 -0800
From: "Tuck, Bruce"
Subject: FW: trash talk
>
>
>Trash Talk...
>
>There is no place for it in our game. Period.
>
>Yelling at referees...
>
>How much verbal abuse is acceptable? It is not funnyand it does to
>harm, especially to the kids. Fortunately it is not normal any more and
>those who still practice it stick out like a sore thumb.
>
>Bruce Tuck
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:36:57 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Jill (email@hidden) wrote:
> 1) Let it bother you. Let th opponent get teh psychologicla edge. Go home
> & cry becuase someone made fun of you becuase your mommy drove you the game.
>
> 2) Come up with a funny answer that will make them laugh & lose
> concentration.
>
> 3) Come up with worse trash talk & let it perpetuate during the game.
> (warning - this could lead to a real fight.)
>
> 4) Ignore it. And let the scoreboard do the talking for you.
#4 is the only option we should be teaching our children. Why would
you want to teach your child to be a trash talker? This, as you
mentioned, often leads to violence. Is this what we want sports to
give our children? It is this attitude that forces parents to take
their children out of team sports.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:55:38 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
> Hey, I know a few referees (my wife will be taking training next year) and
> it's normal to yell (in a general sense at least) when you feel your team is
> being shortchanged. Nothing personal, but you know the old adage about the
> heat in the kitchen...
Hey Phil,
Are you aware that approximately one third of our first and second
year officials leave the game primarily because of the abuse they
feel they "must" endure? Why should they have to put up with this?
I don't come to your office and shout at you when I think you have
made a mistake. So why should a 12-13 year old child who is trying
to learn a very difficult job be forced to put up with abuse on top
of all the other pressures the job brings?
People continue to complain about poor officiating, but they don't
give the young ones the chance to develop. If they weren't quitting
because of the abuse, they would stay in the program, continue to
develop, and hopefully be better officials down the road. However,
with the tremendous turnover, our younger levels continue to be
officiated by relatively "green" officials.
Officiating is an apprenticeship. They need to be given a chance to
make mistakes. If they are going to be critisized and yelled at
everytime they make a mistake, why would anyone want to continue to
pursue such an activity?
If I said something that offended you in my earlier posts, I truly
apologize. But as you can see, this is a topic that truly hits home
with me. I go to the rink and see these people yelling at these
young officials, and then I go into the referee's dressing room and I
see how it affects some of them. No wonder they quit. So yes, I
take this topic very seriously and so does the Canadian Hockey
Association.
Many minor hockey associations are seeing this too. Some have
already sent standards of conduct for the parents and fans that
attend games and anyone that steps out of line will be told not to
come back. For out children and our young officials, I applaud these
initiatives. Just because we used to consider it "part of the game",
doesn't mean it was right.
Dave
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #168
*************************************