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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #164
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Friday, February 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 164
In this issue:
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Rink air quality, etc.
Re: Rink air quality, etc.
Concordia results / CIAU tournamment
Scholarships
Re: Trash Talk
Re: "Parentitis" the disease!!!
Re: Trash Talk
Re: Rink air quality, etc.
Re: "Parentitis" the disease!!!
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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:06:15 -0800
From: Sally Silva
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Hi David,
I couldn't agree more. In our league our referees monitor the talk
and have been known to hand out unsportsmanlike penalties.
After playing with guys for a number of years, I've learned that
trash talk will only aggravate the situation. So now I show
them with my skills and love of the game. It's hard enough
to earn the respect, why cause problems with trash talk?
I want my reputation to be that I play good hockey, know the
game, and respect everyone who plays it. Of course, every time
I play there's someone on the other team who can't stand it
that I'm better than they are and they let me have it. I've learned
self control, discipline, and to beat them with my skills. It's taken
a while, but it was well worth it!
Sally
#8
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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:34:02 -0800
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Dave baker wrote:
<< What is the appeal of trash talk? Why can't people just beat their
opponent on the scoreboard rather than picking on them mentally and
verbally? I don't understand this phenomenon. >>
Jackie wrote back:
>>>Your taking what I said just a little too far! By NO stretch of the
>>>imagination would I call what I do "Trash Talking" and you shouldn't either!
>>>I do not allow my players to "Trash Talk" as IN using another
>>>players physical imperfections to put them down.
To me, trash talk is any verbal communication that is used in an attempt to
upset or anger a player. Just because you don't use thier physical qualities in
your talk doesn't mean that giving a 20+ year a hard time because his mother
has to drive him to the rink, isn't trash talk. It is!!!!
The alleged statement to Drolet was NOT in regards to her "physical
imperfections" but rather about her father. (Who knows if it was really said).
I hope that your players are good PLAYERS not "talkers".
- --
Megan Bryant
Rhythm & Hues
310 448 7551
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:08:39 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
> That is not "Trash Talk". Sorry, but I can't and won't change my
personality and I don't try to change the > personalities of my
players either.
You are right Jackie, what you described in your recent post is not
trash talking. However, making fun of someone who had to have a
parent drive them to the arena "could" be considered trash talking.
It is all in how the recipient accepts the talking. For some it may
be offensive, for others, they may just laugh. It is definately a
fine line sometimes. But what is wrong with just encouraging your
own team and simply congratulating the other team when they make a
good play?
You see, regardless what you are saying to your opponent, youngsters
interpret that to mean it is okay to talk to their opponent. And of
course, some of them get too carried away and it often becomes trash
talk.
I am sure that what you say is always meant in the best possible way.
My point was that too many people feel that "throwing their opponent
off their game" by using verbal taunts is acceptable. I challenge
you to answer the question, "why is it considered acceptable?"
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY ASSOCIATION
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 13:25:04 -0500
From: email@hidden (Jules Hammer)
Subject: Re: Rink air quality, etc.
<>
That's the same kind my home rink has...not a Zamboni brand, though. The
rink manager loves it.
Jules
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:28:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Wendy R. Painter"
Subject: Re: Rink air quality, etc.
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:30:10 -0400
> From: Debbie Minden
> Subject: Re: Rink air quality, etc.
>
> George,
> It was not the carbon monoxide that affected my daughter, but rather the
> molds and mildews that grow in places like rinks. Rinks are damp and great
> breeding grounds for those kinds of allergens. I wonder about the high
> number of hockey players and figure skaters who use inhalers before and
> after skating. There must be something that causes this. You don't see
> that kind of stuff in other sports.
Au contraire, if you watch enough sports closely (and mainly in person),
you will see a number of athletes in all sports taking asthma medication.
Perhaps you see ice athletes doing it more because you see more in-person
ice events, but I can tell you from experience that I have friends who
play basketball, run marathons, and play outdoor roller hockey -- all of
us have to take our medication before games. It has more to do with the
fact that the activity aggravates our symptoms, not any particular
allergen. You don't see it much on TV because the networks just don't
show that sort of thing very often. I've watched college basketball
players hit the bench and puff puff puff those inhalers before, but I've
never seen it on TV.
Your daughter's case certainly could be caused by the molds at the rink
- -- my point here is that athletes in all sports, in all sorts of arenas,
have to take their asthma medication, and I'm not about to blanketly blame
rink air quality when there are so many other factors that aggravate
asthmatic symptoms.
For me personally, I have skated at this same rink for over a year and
didn't have any problems until I started doing hockey scrimmages. The
rink has always used an electric resurfacer, so I don't think is toxic gas
buildup that's aggravating me... and I think that molds/mildews would have
aggravated me while figure skating long ago... so my conclusion is that my
asthma is being irritated by the activity of skating all-out, with 40lbs
of equipment, rather than anything else. I take my medicine about half an
hour before getting on the ice, and I hope that my symptoms will lessen as
my overall fitness improves...
Wendy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:32:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Bryan Parker
Subject: Concordia results / CIAU tournamment
The Concordia Stingers defeated the University of Toronto Varsity Blues
1-0, and the Universite de Quebec a Trois-Rivieres defeated the Guelph
Gryphons 2-0 on day one of the CIAU championships at Concordia yesterday.
Jessika Audet got the shutout for Concordia, facing 15 shots. Isabelle
Minier recorded UQTR's shutout.
(Games in the first round consist of three 15-minute periods.)
All-Canadian Anne Rodrigue scored Concordia's only goal at 12:35 of the
third period, on a power play. Corinne Swirsky and Monelle Hebert
assisted.
Toronto's Keely Brown made 23 saves, including 11 in the first period, and
was named UofT's player of the game. Defenseman Amy Coehlo was Concordia's
player of the game.
Swirsky was named CIAU player of the year later that night at the
All-Canadian banquet. The first-ever winner of the Broderick Trophy joins
fellow Stingers Rodrigue and Delaney Collins on the All-Canadian team.
Concordia's Karen Kendall won the TSN Award.
The Stingers face the Alberta Pandas later tonight to complete the round
robin portion of the tournament.
Bryan Parker
Sports Editor, The Concordian
(Concordia's Top Source for Stinger Sports)
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: 27 Feb 1998 12:36:58 U
From: "Olson, Lynn"
Subject: Scholarships
Whether it's she or someone else, isn't the number of scholarships big news?
I remember being told as recently as this last summer that there were
significant limits on the amount and number of hockey scholarships available
in the US universities. Is this a change in policy (NCAA?), or did I have
my facts incorrect previously?
Specifically, what I was told last year is that most of the money in women's
hockey is in the eastern prep schools, where there's no governing body like
the NCAA, and that the NCAA had significant limits on women's hockey money.
Can anyone fill me in on the actual story here?
- - - Chuck Collins
email@hidden
In reply to Chuck's questions, Minnesota Colleges and Universities that are Division I will have 18 full scholarships to give out over a graduated scale in the next few years. The University of Minnesota (I believe) had approximately four last year and will add additional scholarships each year until they have 18. University of Minnesota Duluth is a part of the U of M college system and will follow the same way with eventually have 18 full scholarships. The budget for the women's hockey team at the U of M will be the same as the men, approximatley $400,000 - $450,000. Three other Universities in Minnesota will probably be going Division I within two years and they also will be providing scholarships. Does anyone have any knowledge of what the east coast colleges (Providence, University of New Hampshire and Northeastern University) have for number of scholarships each year?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:31:03 -0500
From: Louise
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
>Jackie wrote:
>
>> I talk, but more to opponents than to teammates. I've always found it
amusing
>> how quick players can be taken off their game by just a little yapping.
I think it's kinda funny too, when I see an adult being unable to ignore
being teased, losing his/her temper, and ending up in the penalty box. But
I never taunt opponents myself because I think it's in poor taste. I
don't think that any coach of children should tolerate "mean talk" from
his/her players. The new CHA guide to understanding abuse and harassment
for parents and guardians says "Your child's safety is also at risk when he
or she is threatened, intimidated, taunted, or subjected to racial slurs by
a peer - this is HARASSMENT!"
DAVE BAKER wrote:
>It bothers me even more because I am hearing more and more of it.
>Soon, there will be a call to eliminate trash talking from the game.
>And guess who will have to police it? Right, the referees. And
>personally, I think they have enough on their plates already. Hey
>coaches.....tell your players that trash talking is unacceptable on
>your team and maybe we don't need to create any more new rules for
>the officials to enforce.
Not just coaches, but parents and team captains too, should be telling
their players that taunting opponents is unacceptable. I wouldn't even use
the term "trash talk" in talking to kids about the problem, as that
expression seems to come from the street-basketball culture where it is an
acceptable "cool" part of the game.
Another tricky situation occurs when one player is off-the-ice friends with
an opponent or a referee. That player might enjoy some "harmless" kidding
around like pretending to threaten the opponent or pretending to question
the ref. However, not everybody else knows of the off-ice connection, and
the kidding around may be very easily misunderstood.
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:31:01 -0500
From: Louise
Subject: Re: "Parentitis" the disease!!!
At 08:13 AM 2/27/98 -0500, VIC'S HOCKEY SCHOOLS wrote:
>You have really hit on a very serious subject that I'm including in my=20
>new hockey books (May '98). What you refer to and what we call
"Parentitis" has
>disrupted thousands of families and taken the "FUN" out of the game for
the
>kids for many years now. It seems to be getting worse especially with
the great=20
>influx of new Girls/Women Hockey.=20
I'm not sure I understand what you're intending to say by this last
sentence. Do you mean that you have a lot of experience in female
hockey, and that the problems of inappropriate behaviour by parents are
worse in families which have joined female hockey recently, in comparison
to families who have participated in the past, or who have been
participating in female hockey for a long time? Do you mean that you
think parents of girl hockey players behave worse than parents of boy
hockey players? Or did you mean something else entirely? How much
experience *do* you have with female hockey?
Here are some of my own observations, over 25 years as a player and
supporter of female hockey and as a sometime supporter of male minor
hockey. When I started playing at 13, most of the girls on our team had
parent(s) who didn't approve of them playing hockey. Their families
might grudgingly pay for their registration, or for some of their
equipment, but they didn't drive their daughters to practice, watch more
than one or two games a season, or participate in the female hockey
organization. (Some of the girls even managed to conceal their hockey
playing from their parents, by using their part-time-job income to pay
for it, and keeping their gear in someone else's car.) In comparison,
when my brothers were 13, most players on their teams seemed to have
family spectators at every game - including sisters who didn't play
themselves. Their parents typically formed a social group with the
"other parents on our team", critiqued their son's playing during the
game and discussed it with him on the way home in the car, kept track of
whether he got fair ice time, discussed the hockey association policies
with other parents at practices and in the annual meetings, sometimes
running for office, and challenged the coaches when they seemed to be
making "wrong" decisions. Sometimes they yelled abuse at referees, paid
their sons rewards for scoring goals, or bought into the myth that the
purpose of minor hockey was to develop pro players.
I think that both situations were unhealthy. In the 25 years since, I've
seen more families come to take their daughters' hockey seriously in the
same ways they take their sons' hockey. This, of course, is both a good
thing and a bad thing. The challenge, for parents and for hockey
organizers, is to enjoy the benefits of having rapidly growing hockey
opportunities for girls and women, without buying into the harmful
practices that go along with much of the male-hockey culture. =20
(Ironically, I believe that many of the excesses I saw around
little-boys' hockey in Canada in the 1970's, were part of a trend
stemming from a campaign in the 1960's, maybe for Little League [TM], to
"don't just *send* your boy to the game, *take* him", meant to encourage
parents to take more interest in their children's activities.)
And I do wonder whether the recent publicity about the Olympics might
tempt some parents of girls into unhealthy pressure towards unrealistic
hockey goals, just as some parents of boys are tempted into believing
that raising a potential NHL player is more important than raising a
healthy well-rounded adult. =20
>There are far too many examples of this=20
>(bad) abusive parental behavior and because of my research, I can=20
>certainly symathize with your experiences. Some parents do get=20
>well again, but most just have their contagious parentitis traits=20
>copied by others. (Sometimes by their own children). Hopefully,=20
>by bringing out these terrible, embarrassing=20
>experiences we can begin to show them the way!
Have you seen the recent Canadian educational video "Hockey Parents Make
A Difference"? It points out many of the ways parents can make a
difference, for better or for worse, in a child's hockey experience, and
it does it in a gentle and humourous way. I think it is probably more
effective to use tools like this, which demonstrate small ways that
parents can support their children and can guide other parents, rather
than merely to tell stories about the most egregiously abusive hockey
parents as you suggest. Most parents won't recognize their own behaviour
in your horror stories, and won't be inclined to self-examination and
change. (This video can be bought from the CHA, or can probably be
borrowed from your provincial Branch or local association.)
I apologize for the difficulty I had in providing a suitable format for
the material I quoted from Vic's post. =20
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:42:35 -0800
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Re: Trash Talk
Dave said:
>What is the appeal of trash talk? Why can't people just beat their
>opponent on the scoreboard rather than picking on them mentally and
>verbally? I don't understand this phenomenon.
It's called "gamesmanship" and adds spice. It's gone on in every sport for
time immemorial, from the subtle nuances of golf up to the lamentable (but
inevitable) variants on "your mother wears army boots".
Pretty much impossible to enforce anyway.
Besides, Reggie Dunlop used it to good effect in questioning the sexual
proclivities of Hanrahan's wife. The Chiefs got a goal out of that one, I
seem to recall :)
Phil, Victoria, BC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:53:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Susan Gottfried
Subject: Re: Rink air quality, etc.
Sorry, Debbie:
We do see inahler use in other sports, often as much as we hockey players
do (it was on the ice that I developed my exercise-induced asthma, even).
Look across the state at us in Pittsburgh. Ever watched a Steelers game?
Ever see Jerome Bettis come off the field and sit on the bench with his
little pipe of asthma stuff? Or use his inhaler?
Look at the number of athletes from the summer Olympics who made
headlines for using inhalers -- including the one swimmer. Didn't he earn
a Gold despite the asthma?
It does happen. It's just that since rinks are where we spend our lives,
it's our center frame of reference. It's what we hear about the most.
So hang in there, keep breathing, and tote your inhaler along with you.
:)
Susan
Susan Helene Gottfried, MFA
Author, the Erroll Weiss Hockey Girl books
(ask for author's representation)
Freelance copy editor and fiction book editor
on sabbatical from coaching until the books hit the shelves
"I'd really like nothing more than to be driven out of business as a copy
editor, even though I'm good at it."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:20:30 -0500
From: k braun
Subject: Re: "Parentitis" the disease!!!
LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY!!!!!
We are so lucky in Hamilton Ontario!!!
This year our rec. dept. passed a Zero Tolerance Policy in line with the
CH policy and guess what? If you are a nusance, rude, obnoxious or use
an abusive language or gestures or physically abuse anyone (hitting) YOU
ARE OUT. Not only out of the arena, but all city owned rec facilities.
This pertains to players, coaches, staff, refs, parents...just everyone.
Is it enforceable? YES. We've already had problems that have been
supported by the city and people banned. If they choose to ignore the
ban, they are charged by the city for trespass.
Gee I love this policy. No, it's not the only answer, but it's a great
start and I'm proud of the city for not only bringing this in but
standing behind what they said.
Lucky, lucky, lucky!!!
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End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #164
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