Parent
From: email@hidden (Women-in-Hockey Digest)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #149
Reply-To: women-in-hockey
Sender: email@hidden
Errors-To: email@hidden
Precedence: bulk
Women-in-Hockey Digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 149
In this issue:
Re: Random thoughts
Re: Where do I go from here?
Re: Random thoughts
copy of the game
The number and percentage of female athletes/teams has been growi ng...
High school hockey
Thanks, Re: Need some advice
Male/ Female Coaches
gender differences
US men, and TNTs rebroadcast
Re: little bit of everything
Re: gender differences
=======================================================================
Unsubscribe:
Help:
or
=======================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:36:02 -0800
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
> Of all the positive aspects of this result, the one biggest negative,
> no matter which country you are from, is that the stock of women
> coaches around the sport lost some points.
Oh. So if Shannon Miller's team wins, it's because she's a good coach,
but if they lose, it's because she's a woman? I don't think so. Ron
Wilson's team was an embarassment to the US, so should we conclude that
ex-Duck coaches, or coaches with ugly crewcuts, should be avoided?
Shannon Miller's teams won all those World Championships, against
male-coached teams. Should I conclude that male coaches lost points
in those tournaments?
- -- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:17:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Jessica Yeo
Subject: Re: Where do I go from here?
There are 2 teams we played down their called COGWHA
Capitals. One was advanced one was novice, I forget
the age group, but it was a variety
- email@hidden wrote:
>
> I have never played hockey before, but I have
always wanted to. When I was
> in grade school I figure skated. I hated wearing
the dresses 'cause I was
> a tomboy, but I loved speed skating around people,
seeing if I could make
> them fall and all. I grew up in the suburbs of
Atlanta, where hockey was
> pretty unheard of, and women's hockey - no such
thing. Anyway, I always
> had a desire to play hockey, but never did anything
about it. So now, I'm
> 25 and out of college and working. I feel that
I've missed my opportunity.
> All throughout my childhood I've played all kind of
sports - soccer,
> basketball, softball, tennis, and x-country; but,
never hockey. Anyway, I
> played roller hockey for one summer in college and
loved it. But, I felt
> it was missing something for me personally, ice.
Lately, ice has been a
> big part of my life - mountaineering and ice
climbing. The turning point
> was actually watching women's hockey on the
Olympics. So, where do I go
> from here? I live in Columbus, OH near OSU. I've
checked with OSU about
> playing in their intramural league, but because I'm
not a student, that
> option is out. I've been working out every other
day and biking at least
> once a week, getting myself psyched up and ready to
play somewhere. I went
> ice skating last weekend for the first time since
grade school and it all
> came back. I was all psyched speed skating
backwards and all. I really
> think ice hockey is it 'cause I've got the combo of
ice skating and soccer
> which I played all my life and I've got the mental
toughness, the only
> question is whether a 5', 98 lb can handle the
blows; I know I'll have to
> work on that. So, I was a little disappointed to
join this e-mail list to
> find people squabbling about coaches, the US team,
the Canadian team, etc.
> I just joined 'cause I want to learn about hockey.
I'm an outsider, I
> didn't know what was going on with the Women's
Olympics on the inside, but
> I don't care. All I know, is that yes, it made me
realize that women's
> hockey is a big deal. I'll have everyone know that
the message has at
> least gotten to one person, that women's hockey is
real. Does anyone have
> any tips? Are there such things as women's hockey
leagues for those of us
> out of college?
>
> Shannon Hetrick
> Columbus, OH
>
>
>
>
================================================================
> Unsubscribe:
>
> Help:
> or
>
>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:31:02 -0800
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Re: Random thoughts
I wrote:
> > Of all the positive aspects of this result, the one biggest negative,
> > no matter which country you are from, is that the stock of women
> > coaches around the sport lost some points.
>
> Oh. So if Shannon Miller's team wins, it's because she's a good coach,
> but if they lose, it's because she's a woman? I don't think so. Ron
> Wilson's team was an embarassment to the US, so should we conclude that
> ex-Duck coaches, or coaches with ugly crewcuts, should be avoided?
>
> Shannon Miller's teams won all those World Championships, against
> male-coached teams. Should I conclude that male coaches lost points
> in those tournaments?
Someone nicely pointed out in private email that it wasn't Shannon
Miller coaching when Canada won those World Championships. Sorry for
the error. The original point stands, though: Shannon Miller's failures
are her own, not her gender's.
- -- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:34:30 -0800
From: Bec Kemp
Subject: copy of the game
>Does anyone have a copy of the US v. Canada game? I'd love to get a
>copy.
> I'll pay for the tape and postage. Please, if anyone taped it, let me
> know
> asap.
> Thanks!!
> -jill
>
Please respond directly to: email@hidden
Bec Kemp
email@hidden
AOL Instant Messenger: beckemp
wherever you go, there you are!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:52:04 -0500
From: "Ashmun, Julia D"
Subject: The number and percentage of female athletes/teams has been growi ng...
FYI on the Coaching subject:
While the number and percentage of female athletes/teams has been
growing since the passing of Title IX (gender equity legislation in the
US) -
the percentage of female coaches has fallen.
Some attribute this to Athletic Directors (AD) using the 'buddy' system
when hiring for the newly created paid positions.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:03:07 -0500
From: "Joanna L. Dumas"
Subject: High school hockey
>Shannon,
>I'm a high school hockey broadcaster (boys and girls) in Minnesota.
>As far as I know, Minnesota is the only state in the U.S. with girls
>high school hockey. Let me know how I can help.
>Kevin Norling
There are also some high school teams in Massachusetts. Only about a
dozen now, but it is growing.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:25:35 -0800
From: "J. Daldry"
Subject: Thanks, Re: Need some advice
I played hockey for the first time last weekend, thanks to a "Give Hockey a
Try" day sponsored by the Northern California Women's Hockey League. All I
had to do was show up and they suited me up in all the gear, and we had a
mini-lesson in skating, controlling the puck, and last (but the most fun)
we had some scrimmages...
Thanks to all who sent along advice about my sore feet. I discovered that
my skates are too big by about 1/2 size, which is probably contributing to
my problems. I took a little advice from everyone--stretched out my feet
before skating, laced the arches looser and ankles tighter, and tried not
to think about my feet, but concentrated on what I was doing.
I had hardly any problems after about the first 10 minutes; I got so caught
up in everything that I even forgot that I don't skate very well (except
when I skated past the puck and can't skate backwards, so I had to turn
around and go back--very slowly...). But I still had a blast!!!
So thanks again for all the advice; I'm now saving up for some new skates
that will fit just right and fit *my* feet, since I'm planning on playing
hockey for the next 50 years or so...
- -- Jenna
- -
*************************************************
240-Robert TV Series Fan Page
http://www.geocities.com/~240robert
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:01:52 -0800
From: Don Howell
Subject: Male/ Female Coaches
l agree with the comments that we would lke our kids coached by the best
person available. l am also a great supporter of seeing more female coaches
fill the ranks. lt has to start at the lower levels and then develop.
Unfortunately there just isn't enough female coaches in many areas of the
country yet. l've been coaching since 1975 and have coached women since
1989. l have continually tried to get graduating females to take an
assistant position on various teams l've been involved with. l think it
would be great to see some of the quality females l have seen come through
the ranks come back and help. Unfortunately l have not been successful to
this point. Potential candidates have been unable or unwilling to commit
the time and energy required. This has concerned me and l don't have an
answer. l know there are many good female coaches out there but there still
needs to be more new females willing to get involved at lower levels and
begin the long climb that so many of us have made.
They need to be chosen not because they are male or female but because
they are the best one for the job.
l am interested in hearing how others feel about this and why don't more
females want to get involved with coaching after their playing days are over?
Don Howell
Team California
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:25:38 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: gender differences
I know I'm going to get creamed for this, but I just can't let this go....
An earlier post devoted much space to studies that supposedly prove that men
and women have different learning styles, that women do better when kept in
single sex classrooms, and that women should optimally be coached by women to
accommodate these differences. I think the exact words were something like
"they're just DIFFERENT."
Of all these statements, the only one that I would agree with is that women
perform better in single sex environments. That's been common knowledge for
twenty years, and was first seen when someone went through Who's Who and found
that something like three quarters of the women mentioned had gone to single
sex colleges. The most likely reason for this isn't that the sexes learn
differently; the curriculum I studied at Smith, a women's college, was no
different from that of neighboring coed schools, and in fact was a lot tougher
in many departments. The main reason seemed to be that teenage girls are
*socialized* to defer to boys - thus the notorious "dumbing down" of high
school girls, particularly in math and science - rather than any inherent
brain differences. There were plenty of math, hard science, philosophy and
pre-med students at Smith as opposed to coed schools like Amherst or Williams
*because the students weren't under any pressure to conform to the "real girls
don't study that" mindset.* One friend of mine who was a math major spent a
semester at Williams to be with her fiance, and said it was a good six weeks
before the other students (all male) in her advanced seminars stopped staring
at her, or expected her not to know her material; after that, she found it
easy to understand why there were forty math majors at Smith and no female
math majors besides herself at Williams.
And as for learning differently, or responding to female teachers because they
have some inherent knowledge of the feminine mind - I seriously doubt this.
The professors who taught me the most and pushed me the hardest were two women
(European literature and Russian history) and three men (one poet and two
English professors). They all set high standards, they all demanded serious
study and a real commitment to the subject, and they absolutely refused to
accept substandard work. Some of these classes had male exchange students
from Amherst, and there was NO difference in the way these professors treated
the men and the women. They treated us all as scholars, and expected us to
behave as such.
I'd like to know the samples used in these studies - a lot of ink has been
devoted to seriously flawed studies (like Carol Gilligan's famous one on how
women and men's moral reasoning differs - it was based on four dozen of her
own students, and is contradicted by virtually every other study done on the
same subject, using the same criteria) that were based on a handful of
subjects, or used poor methodology. Socialization isn't the same thing as
inherent differences.
Two more points: first, after four years of living in a single sex society,
and thirty-three of living in a coed one, one thing is obvious to me: women
and men are much more alike than they are different. The reason why everyone
believes otherwise is because women have this tendency (whether conscious or
not) to defer to men in hopes of attracting a partner. One of the reasons why
I didn't date until my senior year was because I *didn't* treat men
differently, and didn't approach every situation as a possible dating
opportunity - I didn't wear the mask most women (at least of my generation - I
hope it's changed by now) slipped on without even knowing it as soon as a man
walked into the room. It's a standing joke in the family that the standard
female acculturation never took with me, or why I don't automatically coo over
romance novels or hunks du jour.
Second, if female coaches would inherently be better at understanding the
different learning styles of girls, how is it that most of the elite women's
hockey players not only played on boys' teams under male coaches, but thrived
under them? I realize that there wasn't much of an option for the older
players, but some of the younger players *have* played for and with both
genders. If the gender of the teacher makes such a huge difference, how is it
that Anabel Ruggeri can successfully play with Lisa Brown-Miller, or Lesley
Reddon with France St. Louis?
What all this leads up to is that female hockey coaches are going to have to
work their way up, exactly the way female basketball coaches did, and if the
best coaches at any given time are men (cf. Geno Auriemma, who doesn't seem to
have misunderstood the female psyches of pro stars Jen Rizzotti, Kara Wolters
and Rebecca Lobo), then the best coaches are men. Demanding female coaches
whether they're available or not is counterproductive.
Like I said, I'm going to get creamed for this, but I really can't take this
"men and women are so different" nonsense much more.....:(
Lisa Evans
P.S. There was an article in today's paper about the woman who's the head
coach for the largest area youth hockey program - right now she's in charge of
all the 9-11 year olds, most of whom are boys. Guess she doesn't have any
trouble teaching those inherently different boys.....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:35:17 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: US men, and TNTs rebroadcast
TNT reaired the game today, I'll get to that in a minute here, but
afterwards they did a story about the US men. They trashed a couple dorm rooms
in the olympic village, they're not sure who did it yet. While watching this I
can't help but think, 1 they're making US look sooo bad by this, but 2 they
make womens hockey and the players look so much better. I mean grow up, sure
they didn't play too great, but thats no reason to go trashing other peoples
property. Take it out on a punching bag, or do what I do, take slapshots at a
goal (in my case a mattress, since the goal we have is a piece of junk and
falls over if you put any force into the puck/ball) untill your arms hurt.
Another thing I do when I'm mad is play ping-pong. But trashing dorm rooms,
act your age guys. Hopefully the NHL will think twice before letting NHLers
back into the olympics.
Now to TNT's rebroadcast of the game. Personally I thought it was
pretty cool, sure I only got home in time to catch the 3rd period, but it was
cool. Granato, Bye and Ruggerio were there telling what they were thinking at
the time, and their thoughts of the game. It was pretty neat hearing what the
players thought, too bad Tueting wasn't with them, I'd like to know what she
was thinking during the game.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:07:24 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: little bit of everything
Last year when I went into my first roller hockey season, I figured that there
had to be a couple girls interested in hockey. I get to the clinic, and its
just me and one other girl. I didn't see anybody laughing, or snickering, of
course come to think of it, I was probably one of the bigger ones there. After
the clinic, I felt pretty good considering I didn't make an idiot of myself,
well untill the very end (we were doing a relay where we took the ball around
a cone and came back, I went around the cone, but the ball didn't an went 20
feet down the parking lot, looking like a complete moron) but otherwise I felt
pretty confident, seeing that I could skate better than half the guys there.
Then the coach called later that week telling when practices were, I
showed up figuring I'd be the only girl, but I wasn't, the only 2 girls in our
age group ended up on the same team. I still wonder if thats just so we didn't
feel awkward, or if it really was based on skill and ended up there. I figured
that since the coach was a guy, he'd single me and Katy (the other girl) out.
Like pointing out every mistake or putting us on the 3rd line. But he didn't,
in the first game, I was on 1st line, Katy was on 2nd line. And he helped
everybody out, pretty much equally.
Every time I fell, or got hit by the ball, most of the guys asked me if I
was alright. One time I collided with one of them, and we both fell, and he
asked me if I was alright not even concerned with himself. Then he got up and
started complaining that my stick stabbed him in the kidney. Its weird though.
I'm not really used to being asked that all the time, I'm used to crashes and
painful things. 2 summers ago I was playing baseball with my brother and the
neighbors. I was pitching, and Troy (one of the neighbors) hit a line drive
right into my shin, I fell down and the ball rolled about 10 feet away, I
stumbled up and grabbed the ball ready to run to first base and tag him, he
was maybe 5 feet away from home plate, making sure that I was alright. I
didn't care about the pain, I just wanted to get him out. Sure it did hurt,
and left a huge bump on my leg, I think you could even tell where the stich
marks on the ball had hit, but it didn't matter.
But as there usually are, there were the 2 hotshots of the team, 1 guy
who never passed the puck, and thought he was the greatest or something, and
the other guy never seemed to think anybody was playing good enough, including
me. In one of the games (when we were on the same line) he was yelling at me,
now when I'm getting yelled at I usually lose complete concentration, or I
want to do exactly opposite of what the person is yelling. Luckily after the
2nd or 3rd game, the coach switched the lines around. There was one day when
both of them missed practice, I personally think that was the best practice we
had, it gave the rest of us a chance to have fun and not be yelled at or
criticized, and a chance at actually playing, without them hogging the ball.
After the first 2 practices and the 1st game, I realized that the coach
wasn't bad. He wanted to have fun, and thats what we did. Near the end I
realized just how important that was, one of the other coaches was yelling at
the players all the time, and supossedly he was making comments about us, I
dunno if it was about me and Katy, or if he was just cutting our team down to
make them look good or something, but I couldn't stand a coach like that. My
coach was pretty cool, I mean before the first game he told us to fall down a
lot during the warm-up for the game. Sure there were times when he'd get
pissed, but as my dad says, he'd just turn around look across the lake and run
his hand through his hair. When we tied one game, one of the guys got mad and
started throwing his equipment around, and well the coach wasn't too happy
with that and said something to him. So he turned out to be a pretty good
coach, itd be cool if I ended up on his team this year. The only thing is he
missed the game where I scored my only goal, and he never knew about it, which
was partly my fault since I didn't tell him. Well this year I'm going for 3
goals and some assists, last year I had 1 assist and one goal, so I think that
s a pretty good goal to set. Well enough for now.
Jennie
to be #29 (someday)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:30:02 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: gender differences
I thought I was done for the day but I'm going to put my opinion in on this
one too, even though in a way I kinda already did.
Anyways I kinda agree that females do better in same sex environments.
Playing roller hockey last year, I did feel a little pressured being a girl,
that I had to play better than the guys to be considered good. Sure I didn't
score many goals, but I did my share, mainly on defense, I think. We came out
with a 5-0-1 record (so I've never lost a game in actualy competition, that'll
be an experience) everybody on my team had at least one goal so it was good.
And in gym in 8th grade when we played field hockey (not with the short
funky sticks, just normal hockey on a field with wiffle balls) I ended up
being the only girl on a team, and one of hte guys told be to get in goal,
pretty much saying to me, you're a girl and since goalies don't get much
action you can just stand there. I refused and he got mad at me, but I think I
got the point across. Later on, when we got to pick teams, some of the other
girls said we get Jennie. and they thought I was good. In 9th grade when we
played floor hockey, all the guys I ended up seemed to think they were the
best, barely noticing I happened to be on the team. So once again I had to
prove myself. I scored 2 goals, and played pretty rough, finally getting some
recognition. 2 of them were in my english class, and one day said "hey aren't
you on our hockey team in gym?" I said yea, and they said "yea, you're pretty
good"
But I don't totally agree on the entire same sex thing, sure in cases itd
be good, especially when they're talking about guy stuff (like throughout the
90 minutes in band I had to go through every other day during marching
season). I don't know exactly why I don't agree with it, oh wait I remember
now, everybody has different learning styles. Sure some girls are differents
from some guys, but we still all learn different. Like in hockey, I've learned
probably about 3/4 of what I know from watching games and players and styles.
The other stuff I read in magazine articles, not much of the actual skills
book things, and not much from being told stuff. Plus stuff from movies, like
in D3 the coach tells them "make them make the first move" (when playing
defense)or something like that. But I don't learn much from people just
telling me how to do it, maybe if they demonstrate it. well I'm sure you're
tired of reading stuff off this list, I know I am(after about half an hour of
reading, I just start skimming through the e-mails) so I'll stop for now.
Jennie
to be #29 (someday)
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #149
*************************************