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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #142
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Wednesday, February 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 142
In this issue:
Re: Shannon Miller
Canada's Coaching
a couple of thoughts
Re: More aftermath
Re: Shannon Miller
Re: USA Merchandise
Re: Promises
RE: Don Cherry / Miller
Re: Promises
Gold Medal Game/Aftermath/Thoughts
Re: Promises
Re: More aftermath
RE: scouting for US team / jr. nat. team
Fwd: Just Havin' Fun #3
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:22:48 -0600 (CST)
From: John Edwards
Subject: Re: Shannon Miller
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Louise wrote:
> Andria Hunter wrote:
> >I have just heard that Shannon Miller is going to coach at the
> >University of Minnesota in Duluth.
> The CBS announcers said this during their coverage of the final game. It
> was news to me too. But when Shannon was in Brian Williams' CBC studio
> 12-16 hours after the game [Wed 1pm, JST], he asked her what she was going
> to do next, and she didn't say that. She said she was keeping her options
> open - staying with Team Canada to build the program towards the next
> Olympics, coaching at an American college, or returning to the police force
> in Calgary.
I don't necessarily think that it is an indication of anything. I highly
doubt that even if she has the contract in her back pocket, she would say
12 hours after the game that she was running off to Duluth. It would be
unseemly.
If she is going to Duluth (and I have heard it from a source other than
CBS, a source who I tend to believe), then I would expect an announcement
some time after the Olympics are over.
See you later,
John
- --
John Edwards - email@hidden - http://www.islandnet.com/~jedwards
Member, Ross Regabliati Fan Club
The opinions expressed are mine alone, because everybody else says I'm weird.
NOTE: I reserve the right to forward any obnoxious and/or stupid mail.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:30:00 -0700
From: "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
Subject: Canada's Coaching
Hey, I don't know Shannon Miller so how can I hate her.....(just setting
the context)
From watching the games, I believe that the teams were fairly evenly
matched talent wise. I believe Canada, (as usual) had an advantage in
net. Huge rebounds but the US defense did their jobs and kept the
Canadians away from the puck. Not so in our end. The American team was
a little larger but the skill of the skaters was fairly close.
No offense, but I think Canada was a little too old. Veteran players
who've played for 10 years at an elite level add a lot of experience.
With the growth and changes in female hockey over the last 10 years, I
don't think a lot of the early experience really justifies the value of
a 10 year veteran vs a 5 year vet. The Chinese and Japanese teams
played a large number of club teams in Canada to prepare for the
Olympics. Our Junior club only lost by a couple of goals against the
Chinese. I'm not sure how the Chimos did but I believe it was pretty
close. There are a LOT of young (young being 18 to 25 yrs) players out
there who could have contributed a lot to the team if given the chance.
I think that would have helped Canada's size problem. My midget girls
team probably averages about 5'6". The younger players are getting
bigger in a hurry as hockey attracts better athletes away from other
sports due to it's increase in popularity.
I'm trying to remember how many players were invited to the Olympic
selection camp. The CHA web sites lists 9 players as being cut as of
October 2. I was suprised at the small size of the camp. With the
money available, I'm not sure how they could have invited more players
to get a good evaluation. That's one of the difficulties of selecting a
team.
With the players that were there, my opinion is that Canada was
outcoached. Against Japan, it was all individual effort until Canada
had gotten 3 goals, then they started passing. They should have been
passing right from the start. They should have been able to pass their
way around China to get more than 2 goals no matter how much they tried
to clog the front of the net. Sit them if they don't pass. I got up to
watch the Gold medal game after it was underway. My 16 year old
daughter stayed up to watch and the first thing she said when I walked
in the room was tha Canada was not covering their man in front of the
net. (She should know, she plays defense and that's what I
emphasize.) Sure enough, there's the Canadian defense continually
about 3 feet away from the US players. Even penalty killing, you can't
let someone stand on the back post untouched. It should have been
apparent after the 7-4 loss that defensive zone coverage needed fixing.
Offensively, passes, when they were made, didn't reach their target. No
one got to the net for the rebound. There were lots of little things
that weren't done by Canada. The US did all those things well. That's
where I believe the coaching breakdown was. No apparent emphasis on the
finer points of the game.
As far as the complaints about jumping on Canada's coaching, Hey,
welcome to the big leagues.....You know what they say, be careful what
you ask for, you might just get it. As in any other legitmate big
league sport, fans will dissect every move. Mario Tremblay and Roy,
Roger Neilson, Murphy in Toronto, Burns in Toronto, Keenan anywhere,
Mike Holmgren's decision in the Superbowl, any big sport, any
time.......
Discussions on coaching decisions never end. That's why forums like
this exist. Maybe there's something wrong with the selection process
for players and coaches. Maybe we need a number of regional selection
camps so that players can get a fair evaluation without a lot of out of
pocket expenses since they don't play hockey for a living. Maybe this
discussion will provide some push to provide funding for that. Maybe
we're all blowing smoke. Who knows. Welcome the discussion anyways,
perhaps it will help in the long run.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:38:34 +0000
From: email@hidden
Subject: a couple of thoughts
Just a couple of thoughts on things that have been said lately:
On the "lesbian question": when I was a kid (a lot of years ago) any
girl who was serious about sports (other than gymnastics or figure
skating) was in question. As far as I can see, the only thing thats
changed is that more sports have been added to the "acceptable list",
i.e. basketball, soccer, softball... Girls who reach out into "boys"
sports are still in question. My daughter deals with the insinuations
constantly in a school system where she's the only girl playing
hockey.
On the question of male vs. female coaches: one of the worst coaches
we've dealt with on a "co-ed" (read: boys) team was a woman. Her
classic insult to the boys was "you play like a bunch of girls". The
best coaches we've seen are fathers of girls, who've seen how their
daughters have been treated, and determine to make a difference. This
is not to imply that women can't be great coaches, only that it
shouldn't be the first or deciding factor in choosing.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:50:13 -0800
From: Liz Johnson
Subject: Re: More aftermath
At 08:31 AM 2/18/98 -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>At 4:23 AM -0800 2/18/98, email@hidden wrote:
>> One question I often get from men is, "How many
>> lesbians are on your team?" Does anyone ever ask a guy how many men on his
>> team are gay?
>
>Here's a big difference -- the women probably know the answer. The men
>either assume (or hope) the answer is none (and they're probably wrong).
>
Gotta disagree with you here Chuq, I have no idea who is a lesbian and who
is straight on my team, nor have I given it much thought. The only
'answer' I know for sure is about myself.
No big deal man, but women don't have any more insite on who is gay and who
isn't.
Congrats to the US and to Canada, I was happy that the US won and sad that
Canada didn't. If the tables were turned, I would have been just as glad
for Canada and just as sad for the US, I've never supported two teams more
equally in all my days.
God, I love hockey!
Thanks,
Liz
#17
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:55:26 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Shannon Miller
At 9:22 AM -0800 2/18/98, John Edwards wrote:
>>But when Shannon was in Brian Williams' CBC studio
>> 12-16 hours after the game [Wed 1pm, JST], he asked her what she was going
>> to do next, and she didn't say that. She said she was keeping her options
>> open - staying with Team Canada to build the program towards the next
>> Olympics, coaching at an American college, or returning to the police force
>> in Calgary.
>
>I don't necessarily think that it is an indication of anything.
Agreed, except the *way* she said it made it clear that going back to
Calgary wasn't really an option. My gut feeling on this is that she has the
college position available to her, but that what she *wants* to do is stay
with the Canadian program. And that is still up in the air. Until that
decision is made by her superiors, she'll hold off on committing to the
college team.
She outlined a project to create a women's coaching program, where she and
her assistants would work with women to get them into and move them up the
coaching ranks, both as tutors and mentors. That seems well within the
charter of the Canadian team, and I see a lot of positives there, whether
or not she also continues as coach of the Canadian women's team.
So it seems to me she has a job offer pending, but she's also made a pitch
to Team Canada, and she's waiting for them to decide what her future with
them is, if any. And if they keep her on, she'll stay. If not, she'll head
off to Minnesota.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
Date: 18 Feb 1998 11:58:57 U
From: "Olson, Lynn"
Subject: Re: USA Merchandise
In response to the questions regarding T-shirts that Cammi's mother talked about, Minnesota still has several cases of T-shirts for sale from Natalie Granato. If you are interested, e-mail Dorene Piefer at email@hidden. She will respond to you regarding them.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:19:49 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: Promises
Cindy,
> Mr. Baker has chosen to make this some sort of
> personal thing but it's not at all.
Not a personal issue at all. Just a debate.
> The CHA through Dave Baker has a ready admitted they goofed with this
> choice.
Please do not attribute things to me that I did not say.
> I feel so strongly about. I care about womens hockey too much.
Support it instead of cutting it down. You seem to have some
great ideas, put them into practice. We need more women involved at
all levels of the game.
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY ASSOCIATION
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 10:12:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
Subject: RE: Don Cherry / Miller
Hey... I am so glad that Don supports women's hockey ... that is great. A
lot of people do.
*However,* I thought his behavior (on CBC) after the Gold game was
disgusting. Talk about bitter loser! How about some sportsmanship?!?! It
looked like his insides where being chewed up and all he was talking about
was how wrong it was for Canada to lose...
It was so sad!
I did hear an interview with Miller on NPR (National Public Radio) which
was interesting. She said (I am not quoting) that she was really upset
after losing ... then her feelings changed as she looked up at the big
screen and saw Cammi leaning over to receive her Gold metal... and then she
realized it was a great moment for women's hockey.
Zoe
Seattle, WA
Women's Hockey World
http://home.onestop.net/zmh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:13:29 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: Promises
Oh good let's get back to having 50 messages asking what are the best skates to buy. Okay no problem. I thought we were having an open discussion about hockey issues, that being one of them. However if you feel that it has reached it's peak then fine. I don't have a problem with discussing something else. Are you planning to censor everyone from talking about the Canadian Team's coach or just me? And did I read you correctly that I will be cut off I mention it again? Just want to be clear.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:20:14 +0000
From: Kyle Matthews
Subject: Gold Medal Game/Aftermath/Thoughts
WOW what a great game !!
Three cheers to team Canada and team USA for giving us a great gold
medal Game !!
I watched both The CBC and The CBS broadcast.
It was great to hear both the pro Canandien and the pro USA version.
My only wish is that CBS would have showen the entire game but that
has been rehashed quite a bit.. Hopefully NBC will do a better job in
2002
As for the game.. I was on pins and needles for the entire thrid
period..
great end to end action.... It's one of the best periods of hockey that
I have seen...
Those women played their hearts out !!
I cried when the empty netter was scored.. what a great moment for
hockey !!
I thought Shannon Miller did a good job... Yes..Team Canada was a
little tight in the first two periods...
But they (both the USA and Canada) were under a ton of pressure..
I can remember my first hockey game..I couldn't breath until the thrid
period...
I was so nerverous.. I didn't want to make a mistake...
Miller got her team to the Big game... the players have to play the
game
They lost one game.. and are coming back with a silver medal..
I know that I would be thrilled with winning ANY olympic medal.
I am hoping that Miller has a summer Camp this year.. I would love to go
and last but not least..
What about Don Cherry's remarks about women coaching the women's game
and Ben Smith trying to intimidate the refs ??
I would love to see a women coaching team USA next time In Salt Lake...
Maybe Lisa Brown-Miller ??
and does anybody know if they are they going to sell those hats
that team USA had on after the game ??
Kyle Matthews
#99 A2 Flames
USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:13:14 -0400
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: Promises
I too want a female coaching the womens
> team. Don Cherry was right about that. However, you can't put a female in
>that
> position simply because you want a woman. The best available 'person'
>should be
> there. If there is a woman qualified then great. But that person has to be
> there for the good of the program not her own personal glory or agenda.
If you don't train a woman today, there won't be one tomorrow. There were
no women with the experience to go up against elite teams because none had
been given the chance. Its like the NFL and African American coaches.
They don't have the experience so they can't be head coaches because they
don't have the experience. Your circular argument with Shannon Miller in
the center cuts women out of the loop. If you aren't willing to take a
chance on a woman then you will never have women coaching themselves.
Maybe there is more to the Olympics than gold, silver, and bronze. There
is the experience that pushes a program ahead, and allows more people into
the upper echelons. There are more women out there now who have had the
experience of international competition, and they can go out and share
that, and train more women, and spread their experiences. Too many people
are stuck on winning and losing, and counting medals. There aren't enough
who just like to watch the competitors and see people in their own little
moments of personal triumph. It all has to be titanic, huge, on the grand
scale, or it isn't worth doing. It is too bad that it becomes so
politicized. Maybe we just all go back to the pond and play shinny.
Debbie
***********************************************************
Debbie Minden
email@hidden
215-635-4817
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:21:17 -0400
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: More aftermath
>At 08:31 AM 2/18/98 -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>>At 4:23 AM -0800 2/18/98, email@hidden wrote:
>>> One question I often get from men is, "How many
>>> lesbians are on your team?" Does anyone ever ask a guy how many men on his
>>> team are gay?
>>
>>Here's a big difference -- the women probably know the answer. The men
>>either assume (or hope) the answer is none (and they're probably wrong).
>>
>
>Gotta disagree with you here Chuq, I have no idea who is a lesbian and who
>is straight on my team, nor have I given it much thought. The only
>'answer' I know for sure is about myself.
>
>No big deal man, but women don't have any more insite on who is gay and who
>isn't.
The point here is that you haven't given it much thought. And if you knew,
would you move your hockey bag to the other side of the room? Probably not.
Debbie
***********************************************************
Debbie Minden
email@hidden
215-635-4817
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 10:31:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
Subject: RE: scouting for US team / jr. nat. team
MH> There obviously needs to be a wider evaluation/scouting process.
MH> American coaches were apparently sent a form asking if any player on
MH> their team might be good enough to try out for the team.....
There was (I believe) 3 tryouts for the National team (east, midwest,
west). I am a coach I never received such a form mentioned above. There
was also special "skate with the national team" practices to get evaluated
by Ben Smith... if you knew the right people.... but, I think it was more
for back-scratching purposes.
However, I strongly believe that politics plays a great role in who makes
the team (US). That is my personal opinion and I have no proof, of course.
There is a ton of un-tapped talent across the US but I don't think people
look to hard for it.
And another touchy subject I would like to throw out there... I strongly
believe that the younger players should be playing on the Jr. National
team... that is why we have it. There is plenty of over 18 talent that
could have filled certain shoes.
Just my 2 cents.
Zoe
Seattle
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:29:44 -0000
From: email@hidden (Patti Jankun)
Subject: Fwd: Just Havin' Fun #3
Hi,
My name is Patti Jankun, I play for Fridayâs, a womenâs hockey team in
the South Shore Women's hockey league in Massachusetts. We are a B
team and we are hosting the ãJust Havinâ Fun #3ä tournament once
again. It was hosted by the North Shore Indians last year, but I am
currently playing with a new team. This tournament is being held in
Monsey, NY at the Sport-O-Rama rinks.
This year we would like to have 2 divisions, B and C. The past 2 years
it has only been B. We are once again trying to get 6-8 teams in each
division. Teams that have participated are Chesapeake Bay Lightning,
NJ Selects, NJ Bandits, Brooklyn Blades, Hickory Hill, Stoneham
Unicorns, Hudson River Waves, Storm and ourselves. Itâs a blast and
the competition is great.
SO,
You are invited to participate in the "Just Havin' Fun #3" Women's Ice
Hockey Tournament, May 15-17th in Monsey, NY. There will be two
divisions and each team will be guaranteed three games, with the
possibility of five. The games will start on Friday evening with the
semi-final and championship games on Sunday. The tournament fee will be
$550 per team. There are two hotels nearby. I do not have the rate
information as of yet but will get it soon.
This is a fun, informal tournament. We do require that all players be
registered USA Hockey. If you need to mix and match players please do
so. It is a "B" and "C" level tourney.
If you are interested in participating please call or email me as soon
as possible. I will require a $100 deposit by March 31, and full
payment by April 20th. If you have any questions please call.
Thanks
Patti Jankun
367 Alewife Brook Parkway
Somerville, MA 02144
(617)629-3989
email@hidden
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #142
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