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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #124
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Tuesday, February 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 124
In this issue:
Re: Shannon Miller Discussion
Re: CBC Coverage of Women's Hockey
US Television Coverage
japanese team
Re: Evaluating Team Canada Players
Women's hockey exhibit
Luge and Hockey
Re: Women's Pro Hockey
Re: competition
Re: japanese team
Re: 23-0 ???? I dont think so !
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:02:15 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Shannon Miller Discussion
I am sorry if I offened anybody about my Shannon Miller question.That is all
it was just a question.I don't care if she is gay.If she is then great more
power to her.I just heard it and asked if it was the truth.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:17:22 -0500
From: "Marc J. Ouellette"
Subject: Re: CBC Coverage of Women's Hockey
As previously noted in this mailing list, CBC's coverage of the women's hockey
has been somewhat disappointing, so far. They have only shown parts of the
first two games that Canada has played (but they have shown those parts live).
It's understandable, since, after all, these are the Olympics and other
events occur at the same time (e.g., women's curling Canada vs Norway was
on at the same time as women's hockey, Canada vs China).
On the other hand, I have to commend SRC (that's CBC's french language
counterpart, available throughout Canada) on doing an excellent job covering
women's hockey. Not only have they shown most of Canada's first two games
(I would estimate they showed about 95% of the game vs Japan, and 70% of
the game vs China), they have also shown substantial portions of the Finland
vs Sweden game (about 80% of it). Not only that, I have found that the play-
by-play is much better in French. The play-by-play guy (Rene Pothier sp?)
is very good at describing the play, using players' names (not just the
Canadians, but the Chinese, Japanese, Finns & Swedes!), not just ``the player
from China passes to the other player from China'' :-) If you understand
French (and even if you don't:-), give SRC a try!
Finally, combining the coverage of SRC and CBC, I've managed to get all
but 2 minutes of Canana vs Japan, and all but the first 16 minutes of
the third period of Canada vs China. So far, I've only missed seeing
one Team Canada goal live (Judy Diduck's goal vs Japan). Say, by the
way, did anybody else notice that all 6 of Canada's defence scored one
goal vs Japan? Or that of the 15 goals scored so far by Canada, only
two have been scored by forwards not on the first line? (Vicky Sunohara
and France St-Louis)
Go Canada Go! :-)
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:31:34 -0600
From: widget
Subject: US Television Coverage
Like many of you on the list, I was really hacked off at the way the US
television stations were covering the games. But, like someone else said,
they are covering the games for non-sports fans. And when you think of it
that way, the coverage is probably pretty good. A couple of thoughts on that:
1) Hockey can be difficult to watch on television, particularly for the
not-yet-converted. Pieces of games are probably the attention span limit for
most people. (I even know hockey players who won't watch it on tv)
2) The human interest angles they have shown were pretty cool. I particularly
liked the segment on the women players from the 30's and 40's. These seem to
be helping people *connect* to the sport that might not otherwise.
3) I too, have been approached by what seems like a hundred people telling me
that women's hockey is now an olympic sport and how cool it is. The coverage
_must_ be working.
Regards,
Lea
- --
*********
"Sometimes you have to look reality in the eye
and deny it." --- Garrison Keillor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:33:58 -0600
From: widget
Subject: japanese team
On the subject of whether or not the host country should be invited to participate:
The Japanese games have been sold-out. I think it is a wonderful way to
promote the team and help it get the exposure it needs to grow into a more
competitive program. I think in the long run, this policy is a good thing.
Lea
- --
*********
"Sometimes you have to look reality in the eye
and deny it." --- Garrison Keillor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:45:54 -0500
From: "Marc J. Ouellette"
Subject: Re: Evaluating Team Canada Players
In Women-in-Hockey, Volume 01 # 116, email@hidden wrote:
> My problem with the evaluation done on this board is that with almost everyone
> reading this, you don't even come close to seeing the national teams so often.
> How could you? Except for those of you directly connected with the national
> team and who follow the team around (anyone besides Dave? Anyone INCLUDING
> Dave?), the opportunities do not exist. Only a handful of games have been
> broadcast, and I very much doubt many people reading this have seen them in
> action more than a handful of times ever, let alone this season.
As you point out, not many of us have been able to watch many games for
the 1997/98 edition of Team Canada. [Not counting the Olympics, I've seen
3 : 1 live, 2 on TV] However, many people on this mailing list have had
the privilege to watch many of these same players play in previous World
Championships. [I've seen between 15-20 games, most live, a few on video]
Quite a few people on this mailing list have also had the chance to watch
many of these same players (along with other former Team Canada, and
former/current Team USA and Team Finland players) play in the COWHL, the
Central Ontario Women's Hockey League. This is Ontario's Senior AAA
League, in which most of the Ontario players normally play in, when
they're not training for the Olympics in Calgary. The COWHL is the
highest level of hockey for women in Ontario (and perhaps the world).
The following Canada/USA/Finland National Team players have played in this
league:
Canada:
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Player | WWC/Olympic Years | Years in COWHL |
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Geraldine Heaney | 90 92 94 97 98 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Laura Schuler | 90 92 97 98 | 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Karen Nystrom | 92 94 97 98 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Lesley Reddon | 94 97 98 | 92/93 93/94 |
|Cassie Campbell | 94 97 98 | 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Vicky Sunohara | 90 97 98 | 92/93 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Jayna Hefford | 97 98 | 96/97 |
|Lori Dupuis | 97 98 | 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Angela James | 90 92 94 97 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 |
|Margot Page | 90 92 94 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 |
|Andria Hunter | 92 94 | 93/94 94/95 96/97 97/98 |
|Cheryl Pounder | 94 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 |
|Marianne Grnak | 94 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 |
|Heather Ginzel | 90 92 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 97/98 |
|Sue Scherer | 90 92 | ... played prior to 1992/93 |
|France Montour | 90 92 | ... played prior to 1992/93 |
|Nathalie Rivard | 92 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 |
|Brenda Richard | 90 | ... played prior to 1992/93? |
|Teresa Hutchinson | 90 | 97/98 |
|Cathy Phillips | 90 | ... played prior to 1992/93 |
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
USA
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Player | WWC/Olympic Years | Years in COWHL |
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Sue Merz | 90 92 94 98 | 96/97 |
|Jeanine Sobek | 90 92 94 | 95/96 96/97 97/98 |
|Stephanie Boyd | 94 | 92/93 93/94 94/95 95/96 97/98 |
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
Finland
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Player | WWC/Olympic Years | Years in COWHL |
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
|Sari Krooks | 90 92 94 97 98 | ??? 95/96 96/97 |
+------------------+-------------------+-------------------------------------+
That's a total of 20 Team Canada players (39 Gold Medals in WWC play),
3 Team USA players (7 Silver Medals in WWC play), and 1 Team Finland
player (4 Bronze Medals in WWC play) who have played at least one season
in this league! Whereas watching these players play in previous WWCs and
in the COWHL is not as good as watching them play for the current edition of
Team Canada, it certainly gives a good basis for evaluating their respective
talent. In general, players at the elite level don't tend to fluctuate wildly
from year to year (with exceptions such as injuries, of course). It's true in
the NHL, and it's true in women's hockey.
> If I were to evaluate the play of a member of the AHL Springfield Falcons, I
> could do a pretty damn good job of it. Given personal experience and watching
> twenty games a year, it isn't difficult for a knowlegeable fan to get a good
> handle on how a player manages. If I were to evaluate the play of a member of
> the Boston Bruins ... well, I have access to the entirety of the Bruins'
> schedule on TV.
> [...]
> Ask me how Ray Bourque can play, over his career and over this season. I have
> tons of stats for comparison's sake. I've seen him play for eighteen seasons.
> I've had to see him on the order of three hundred games or more, and in person
> a good thirty times. I can tell you how good he was the year the WHA folded,
> how good he was the last time the Bruins went to the finals, how good he is
> now. He's a rough contemporary of France St. Louis. How many games has
> anyone seen HER play?
Precisely... and quite a few people on this list have seen the above
players play for at least that many games (although not necessarily with
the current edition of Team Canada)... so they certainly can base their
opinions on their knowledge of these players' (reasonably recent) hockey
talent.
> There is no question that James has been a great player. She may have even
> had a great game the last time you saw her play ... but then again, the second
> to last game Larry Bird ever played, in the semis of the 1992 Olympics, he
> racked up a dazzling performance that showed everyone what kind of player he
> once was. That game was in a year that demonstrated Bird's body rendered him
> incapable of sustaining that kind of performance. Were the Celtics to have
> eased him into retirement involuntarily, I'm sure people would in like fashion
> say "Hey, didja see him in that semifinal game? Wasn't he great? Is Auerbach
> smoking Arkansas Polio Weed in his cigars or something?"
I don't think that comparing Angela to Larry Bird is a fair comparison. One,
you're comparing two different sports, and two, at the time of being cut,
Angela was only 32 years old - she's not nearly ready to hang up her skates.
A look at her recent stats in the COWHL, in comparison to her peers on Team
Canada, shows that she is still a very effective player:
| 1996/97 | 1995/96 | 1993/94***|
+-------------------+------------+------------+------------+
|Team Canada Player | GP Pts Rnk | GP Pts Rnk | GP Pts Rnk |
+-------------------+------------+------------+------------+
|Karen Nystrom | 31 84 2 | 29 43 7T | 28 46 4 |
|Vicky Sunohara | 29 70 3 | 25 44 6 | -- DNP --- |
|Geraldine Heaney | 32 66 4T | 29 49 3 | 28 41 6 |
|Jayna Hefford | 30 66 4T | -- DNP --- | -- DNP --- |
|Angela James | 28 58 7 | 29 70 1 | 28 70 1 |
|Cassie Campbell * | 31 36 17 | 19 9 55T | 22 14 34T |
|Laura Schuler ** | 19 32 22T | 16 17 32T | 14 16 25T |
|Lori Dupuis ** | 18 25 37T | 14 8 60T | -- DNP --- |
+-------------------+------------+------------+------------+
Rnk = Scoring rank in COWHL
DNP = Did not play in the COWHL that season
* Cassie played part-time only in 1995/96 and 1993/94, playing also for
Guelph in the OWIAA
** Lori and Laura played part-time only, playing also for Toronto in the
OWIAA
*** : I wasn't the statistician for the COWHL in 1994/95, so I've only
included stats for 3 of the last 4 years.
A look at Angela's recent stats in WWC play, in comparison to these same
peers on Team Canada, points to the same conclusion:
| 1997/98* | 1997 WWC | 1994 WWC |
+-------------------+-------------+------------+------------+
|Team Canada Player | G A P Rnk | G A P Rnk | G A P Rnk |
+-------------------+-------------+------------+------------+
|Jayna Hefford | 16 3 19 1 | 1 3 4 10 | -- DNP --- |
|Geraldine Heaney | 6 10 16 3 | 4 1 5 5T | 1 6 7 5T |
|Karen Nystrom | 6 7 13 4 | 1 2 3 11T | 1 1 2 14 |
|Angela James | 7 1 8 7T | 2 3 5 5T | 5 4 9 2 |
|Laura Schuler | 3 4 7 9T | 1 4 5 5T | 14 16 25T |
|Lori Dupuis | 4 2 6 12T | 2 4 6 3T | -- DNP --- |
|Vicky Sunohara | 3 3 6 12T | 4 1 5 5T | -- DNP --- |
|Cassie Campbell | 0 3 3 18T | 2 6 8 2 | 1 1 2 14 |
+-------------------+-------------+------------+------------+
* = Stats up to the point where the final cuts were made for the 1998
Olympic team.
Rnk = Scoring rank within Team Canada
Even as recently as the 1997 WWC (in April), Angela was (for part of the
tournament) the centre on the #1 line for Team Canada. I think that most
people who have seen Angela play for a long time, will admit that she's not
as dominant as she once was. But they sure find it hard to believe that
her skills and desire to win have dimished so much in the span of 9 months
that she can't even make the team on the fourth line. I don't think the
people who have followed (and keep following) Angela's career thought she
should make the team because she earned it by playing all these years, but
because she is still good enough, and they know that Angela would have done
anything to play in the Olympics and help Canada bring back the gold medal.
That's all for now,
Marc
PS Trivia question of the day : Who was the COWHL's top scorer in 1996/97?
Hint : Look at http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/vv1/COWHL to find out
(or watch CBC - she's doing colour for the women's games:-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:59:29 -0700 (MST)
From: "Nicole A. Taylor"
Subject: Women's hockey exhibit
I'm a university student doing a museum and heritage studies practicum at
the Olympic Hall of FAme and Museum in Calgary, Canada
We're developing a major exhibit on the development of women's hockey in
Canada from the 1890s to their inclusion in the 1998 Olympics. I'm
posting this in hopes that people with information, history, artifacts and
interest in the subject can help me find more material for this exhibit.
I'm very excited about sharing a knowledge of women's hockey with the
general public in this way. I'm also hoping to locate some women's hockey
veterans who played in the 1940s, 50s and 60s.
I hope this project will contribute to the greater body of knowledge on
women's hockey. Anyone can respond to me privately at
email@hidden
Thanks,
Nic
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:19:26 -0800
From: Maura Grogan
Subject: Luge and Hockey
I have to add my two cents to the comments about luge. As an avid hockey
player as well as a member of the 1976 Olympic Luge team, I like watching
both on TV. I agree that CBS' coverage is lame, but I think it's more
about their coverage than whether they're showing more luge, more women's
hockey, or more snowboarding (which I could care less about). When I
competed, luge got about 30 seconds of air play on CBS and then it was only
the men who were shown. The fact that the American women came in 6, 7 and
8 (from what I heard) is a terrific accomplishment. I'd rather CBS (or the
other networks) showed more of the sports in general, and less of the
commercials and "up close" stuff.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:42:35 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Women's Pro Hockey
In a message dated 98-02-10 21:08:57 EST, email@hidden writes:
<<
Amherst, NH - Following its announcement of five franchise site finalists,
Women's Professional Hockey League, Inc. is preparing to open waiting lists
for those interested in purchasing tickets for games scheduled to begin next
fall. >>
After all the emails (and newspaper, magazine articles, etc) that women;s
pro hockey was still YEARS away....................... is this treally true?
Or just a nasty, viscious rumor to serve no purpose other than to torture us?
Forget about buying tickets..........how does one try out for a spot on one of
these teams??
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:50:54 -0600 (CST)
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: competition
Chuq wrote:
>...a lot of that is the U.S. people watching Americans win medals
and
>They're (Canandian TV) showing the competition, not entertaining the masses.
> ...So anything that doesn't fit the attiude of "major league
or nothing" so much of the States has is turned into either an
"event", or sort of a freak show, as a way of sending it to the
masses.
I find some fault with this observation. I have felt that CBS has been doing a pretty good job
of covering most of the events at the Olympics and giving fairly balanced coverage. How many
Americans were expected to metal in the Luge, yet they had extend coverage there for the event.
In fact the US has not metaled in any sport yet, but we are seeing coverage of many events where
Americans are not the favorites.
It is not just an American thing to want to see their countrymen win in the Olympic events. I
spent the summer of 92 in Switzerland during the Olympics. You know what I saw on the TV?
Fencing and Tennis, the only two sports that the Swiss had any chance of metaling in. Almost
nothing else, day and night for the entire games. There was a small clip on the US Basketball
Dream Team, but only because Basketball is getting very popular in Europe. Were they catering
to the advertisers? No, they were giving the people (the masses) what they wanted to watch,
just like the US media and just like the Canadian media.
> And a lot of the winter sports, especially, are sports Canadians
participate in and follow. So their interests are different.
Exactly, that is why you get more coverage in Canada of more sports, that is where the Canadian
interests lie. Canada is into Curling, and other winter sports are more popular there than in
the US, so the media gives more coverage.
>Because CBS is the epitomy of what's wrong with U.S. television in general
I think CBS and the newspapers have been giving women's hockey a great deal of attention. The
front page of the Orange County Register's Sport Section had a picture of the first US game and
it was the lead story for the Olympic coverage. Seems like every time I am watching the
coverage or listening to the news or reading a paper, women's hockey is mentioned. I have
actually been surprized at how much they are giving. I half expect it to die down a little once
the NHL'ers start playing, but for now enjoy it.
Until we have pay-per-event coverage and you can pick an choose what event to watch, will
everyone be happy at the coverage given their sport. And then they will complain because they
have to pay for the ability to see it, because advertisment can't carry the smaller audience
with such extensive coverage.
You can never win!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:17:54 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: japanese team
In a message dated 98-02-10 22:55:18 EST, email@hidden writes:
<<
On the subject of whether or not the host country should be invited to
participate:
The Japanese games have been sold-out. I think it is a wonderful way to
promote the team and help it get the exposure it needs to grow into a more
competitive program. I think in the long run, this policy is a good thing.
Lea >>
I agree with you 100%!!
Hockey is such an expensive sport. Japan is a country with a very high per
capita income, they should be able to pump a lot of money into prgrams and
come up to speed rather quickly.
What better way to get attention and generate interest than by particpating
in the Olympics?? (except, as the WIH mail list consensus seems to be - for
the luge.)
Jill
# 77 Brooklyn Blades
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:01:52 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: 23-0 ???? I dont think so !
At 11:59 AM -0800 2/10/98, email@hidden wrote:
> I heard that Shannon Miller was gay.Is she??
It's irrelevant -- what's this have to do with her skills as a hockey coach?
Nothing.
So drop this one.
List Mom
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #124
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