Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 446
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EMAIL BOMB HELP
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
2) Representation
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
3) Re: Globe and Mail "Truth and Rumours"
by "Ingrid Moon"
4) Re: Globe and Mail "Truth and Rumours"
by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:03:48 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: EMAIL BOMB HELP
Message-ID:
Androlog Mail wrote:
>
> Dear Listserve Owner,
> Please help us!
>
> We are a scientific moderated users group that just got email bombed by
> having our address placed on hundreds (possibly thousands) of listserves,
> including yours.
>
> We would like to identify the host that committed this bombing, so that we
> may protect ourselves and other legitimate lists such as yours from future
> actions. We are based at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and if we
> can identify the perpetrator of the bombing, we will be able to take legal
> action.
>
> If you would be so kind, please look through your logs to see if you can
> identify the host that subscribed 'email@hidden' or
> 'email@hidden' to your listserve. We would be very grateful if you
> could email that host to us.
>
> Thank you very much,
> The Androlog moderators
To the Androlog Moderators:
I hope the info below from the List Mom will help you get off
email@hidden, or any other plaidworks list.
Subject:
Admin: How to get off of, get help for HOCKEY-COACHES
Date:
Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:18:25 -0800
From:
The List Mom
Reply-To:
email@hidden
To:
Multiple recipients of list
Last Update: May 22, 1996
This message contains information about how to subscribe and unsubscribe
to
this mailing list, where to get more help if you need it, and how to
contact
the list admins.
If you do nothing else, PLEASE store the address
in your bookmark file. This will take you to the page containing all of
the
of instructions on how to subscribe and unsubscribe to the mail lists,
what
lists and other services are available on this server, how to contact
real
people for more help, and how to access the system-wide help guides and
tutorials. This one address is your entry point for getting anything you
need on the system, so you can get an updated copy of the instructions
any time you need them.
=====
How We Run Our Lists
=====
The paradigm we use for running our lists is that of the Virtual Sports
Bar -- it's a place people can go to meet people with similar interests
to talk about them, relax, and have a good time. Behavior that's
acceptable in that kind of establishment is acceptable here. It's not
bad to have strong opinions and to discuss them with enthusiasm. We do
not tolerate the "angry drunks" of the Internet.
If you refuse to allow others to express their opinion as you're
allowed to express yours, or if you become abusive, if you break up the
furniture, forget your toilet training, or generally act like an jerk,
your membership may be terminated. Virtual Sports Bars also have
Virtual Bouncers. Ours is named Guido, and he's hung-over and grumpy.
Do not force us to wake him up.
We ask people to act like you would if you were all in a room
together. Some users of the Internet have decided that because this is
all electronic, it means they can do whatever they want. These people
will not be on the list very long. We're tired of babying the idiots,
to be blunt about it.
=====
Subscribing to and unsubscribing from the mail list.
=====
All mailing list commands must be sent to the address
email@hidden
Never send them to the list itself -- that's a very rude thing to do to
your fellow list-users (and it doesn't work, either).
To subscribe to a mailing list, put the string
SUBSCRIBE listname your real name
in the body of the message. "Listname" is the name of the mailing list
you
want to join -- for instance, "sharks" or "la-kings" or "maple-leafs".
For
example, to join the sharks list, you would use:
SUBSCRIBE SHARKS John Doe
Common mistakes: Don't use "email@hidden". Don't use quotes or
other punctuation in the command. Don't put your e-mail address on the
command instead of your real name, and don't forget to put your name in
the
command. Do not put commands in the Subject of the mail message -- leave
the
subject blank, or put spaces in it if you have a mailer that requires a
subject line.
To unsubscribe from a list, put the string
UNSUBSCRIBE listname
in the body of your message. "Listname" is the same as for subscribe:
"sharks", not "email@hidden".
If you want more details on how the list daemon operates, we've written
a
tutorial for you. If you e-mail
email@hidden
the system will return it to you automatically.
=====
Getting More Help
=====
We have written a number of help files that will help you use our
server.
You can get them by e-mailing the address shown below. They will be
returned
to you automatically.
email@hidden -- as talked about above, the list of everything
you can do or access on our system. Everything you need to know
is either in this file, or has a pointer to it here. If you
remember no other address, remember this one!
email@hidden -- a tutorial for teaching the mail
list daemon to behave. Recommended if you are totally confused,
or if you are looking for more advanced capabilities of the
servers, this if the place to look.
email@hidden -- a document of helpful hints on common
mistakes and other problems that we see on the mail lists, and
rules of behavior we ask everyone on our lists to follow. We
encourage all users to read this file at least once.
List specific files -- each mailing list has a file with information
specific to that mailing list. This file is sent to all users
when
they subscribe, but to get a new copy, you can send to
email@hidden
where "listname" would be the name of the list you're getting
information from. For instance, to get information on the sharks
mailing list, send e-mail to:
email@hidden
For the maple-leafs list, use:
email@hidden
=====
Contacting the List Admins
=====
If you need help from a real person, send e-mail to:
A live person will get to you as soon as they can. Please be patient --
it's
not unusual for the admins to take a day or two (and sometimes longer)
to
get back to you. We handle all mail First In, First Out to be as fair as
possible to everyone. If you're having trouble making the mail daemon
cooperate, PLEASE send a copy of the error message it returns with the
mail,
or we can't debug the problem, and let us know what you're trying to do,
and
what you tried. The more information you give us, the faster we can fix
it.
Please try to follow the instructions first -- there are simply too many
users for us to have time to do the administrative work FOR you. Most
days,
we can barely keep up with the problems of people who can't make it
work, so
we ask for everyone's cooperation here. Please read the instructions,
and
try to follow them. If you can't make it work, come ask us for help. But
try
first. If you don't try, or if you don't send us the information we
need,
we'll simply send you back to the instructions -- we consider it
important
that users learn how to properly use mail lists, even though it actually
takes us more time many days than just doing it for you. It's part of
being
a good citizen on the net, and we try to help the new users come up to
speed and learn the proper way to do things.
And please -- don't try forever and put off contacting us until you're
frustrated and angry. That doesn't do anything but create problems,
either.
If it doesn't work the first couple of times, it won't work the 50th,
and it
isn't good for either of us if you wait until the first message to the
List
Admin is incoherent and/or hostile. (hint: users should not be abusive
to
the person they're asking to do something for them. Amazing how often
this
is forgotten...)
=====
Common Mistakes and How to Avoid Them
=====
This is a list of the ten most common mistakes we see on the mailing
lists.
There are many common problems that occur time and time again on the
mailing lists. The document above covers these
in more detail, and has many others as well. If you haven't read it
yet, please do so. It'll save you the problems of re-inventing these
mistakes on your own, and help you avoid the easy ones completely.
1) NEVER POST ADMINISTRATIVE COMMANDS TO THE ENTIRE LIST. It's very
rude,
and it won't work. all you'll get is a note from the List Admins telling
you
how to get the instructions... Use the address to
get
the instructions, or if nothing else works, write the admins for help at
2) BE NICE TO YOUR FELLOW LIST USERS. Abusive users will be removed the
lists and locked off the systems. Remember that most lists have younger
members -- we aren't prudes, but please watch your language. We
encourage
people to keep things reasonable.
3) DO NOT POST COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL. Material that's copyrighted is
owned by someone -- if you grab it and post it to a mail list without
permission, you've just stolen it. That's neither legal nor right. It
can get you in trouble, it can get us in trouble, it can get the mail
list shut down. I know many parts of the Internet ignore this -- but we
don't, and the parts that DO are finding out the lawyers are starting
to make their lives miserable. If you aren't sure what copyrighted
material is, ask the admins before posting -- but anything pulled out
of a newspaper, off of a news-wire like Clarinet or Reuters, off of web
sites like ESPNet or similar services -- all of that is copyrighted.
Don't post it. If you want the list to know about it, post a pointer to
it, and tell people how to go to the original location and access it
there.
4) STAY ON TOPIC. Each list has a specific purpose. While we try to be
flexible, don't abuse it. Stay on topic. If you aren't sure whether a
post
is on-topic, check the charter for the list in the -request mail lists
mentioned above, or write the list admins and check before posting.
5) DO NOT PLAY LIST ADMIN. If you have problems with something happening
on
the list, contact the List Admins. DO NOT TRY TO DEAL WITH IT YOURSELF.
That
usually just makes it worse. And remember -- if a bar fight breaks out,
the
police will come and arrest EVERYONE involved, not just the ones that
started it. If you play List Admin and problems break out, you may well
find
yourself in trouble, too. Let the Admins deal with it. That's why we're
here.
6) USE USEFUL SUBJECT LINES. If a topic drifts off the original topic,
change the Subject line to match the new topic. This is ESPECIALLY
important
for Digest users -- if you don't fix the Subject line, your Subject
comes
out as "Re: DIGEST #32423425623432.1", which is useless to everyone, and
many users simply don't read these messages. Do yourself a favor and
take
the ten seconds needed to do it right.
7) EDIT YOUR REPLIES. There is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- more
frustrating to users of mail lists than people who include 200 lines
from a
previous message, and tack on a two or three line reply to it. It's an
amazing waste of bandwidth and list-goodwill, and lazy to boot. If you
include text in your replies to the list, edit out all of those pieces
that
aren't needed in the reply.
8) KEEP MESSAGES SHORT AND TO THE POINT. The longer and sloppier your
messages are, the harder they are to read -- the fewer people will
bother.
Spelling, punctuation, grammar, formatting all count. Take some time to
make
your messages look good. If you don't take pride in your words, why
should
anyone read them? Just tossing off text that looks like it was printed
by a
malfunctioning printer serves neither you nor your ideas well. Take a
few
minutes to clean things up and make them look like you care -- or nobody
else will, either.
9) NO SPELLING OR GRAMMAR FLAMES. And having said that, while spelling
and
grammar counts, flames about them are really lame, especially because
about
70% of the time the person doing the flaming misspells something in his
flame. Go figure. Don't embarrass yourself with stupid kid stuff like
this.
We have more important things to argue about.
10) KEEP SIGNATURES SHORT AND IN GOOD TASTE. Keep your signatures as
short
as feasible, and keep them in good taste. Material in your signatures
will
be judged the way the rest of your message is -- if it's inappropriate
for
the list, it's inappropriate for the list. Excessively long, useless,
boring
or annoying signatures are also not appropriate -- we may ask you to
stop
using them on the list, and if you refuse, remove you from the list.
Signatures are there to identify you, not to be used for ascii pictures
of
the Death Star or copies of War and Peace.
--End of mail list information file--
============
Posted on
Wed Jan 15 01:00:22 PST 1997
============
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:35:00 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Representation
Message-ID:
email@hidden wrote:
>
> If washington state got to pick their own representative i know of no one that was
> involved in the process. Let me add that I know very many people in washington state
> that are involved with the girls program. I do have my thoughts of how the washington
> representative was chosen. I'll keep them comments to myself.
>
> Dave
Dave: One thing we have to do to make positive change for Girls in the
Pac District, is be willing to state the status quo, and if need be,
change it. Certainly there are many who like things the way they are.
Avoiding the truth or refusing to pull together won't overcome the self
interested, who having gotten a good deal for their kid, and, most
often, could care less what happens when they are gone. The majority of
growth in girls hockey is yet to come. We need to get good
representation now.
I personally don't believe a rep should be selected without approval
from those represented. If a rep for the Girls/Women Section is chosen
by those District Official that themselves were elected with votes
derived from Boys teams, I hardly see how that is representation.
Particularly in lieu of the fact the interests of the two sides are
often at odds.
As much as I wish there was only one side, i.e. one big happy family,
that is not the case, as we so often seem to see up here.
There is now a Pac District Guide Book. The folks that drafted it are
super quick to say it is just that, a draft. One of the things that
programs with Girls/Women section teams need to watch for, is how the
next vote for any District Director goes. By the new District Guide or
as in the past.
Last year, all Alaska votes were carried as a proxy when Mr. Coombs was
elected. That proxy represented one vote for each team in that state.
Perhaps, State Presidents should be carrying the actual votes per
candidate. Indeed, I find it unconscionable that people that tell me I
don't have a grip on the rules as they apply to girls, have been using
proxy, in violation of USA Hockey's By-laws. On page 119, as voting
applies to District Directors and Section Directors, voting by proxy is
specifically "not allowed."
Dave, perhaps the environment in the District prevents you from wanting
to comment. Perhaps that could change if we all speak up together in
favor of a commitment to follow established procedure, as is done in
most of the rest of the country. One thing is for sure, as long as the
rules are not being followed, there will be dissent. And, that dissent
will go unheard and un-addressed!
It's time for change. Although it is probably easier to learn to
function in an improper environment, for the kids sake, we need to work
to change things over to what they should be. I sincerely believe that
representation will be the key to assuring that there is fairness in
deciding what opportunities are available to ALL Girls/Women Section
teams for the post season. Regardless of whether or not a team is on
the pathway to Nationals.
Lyle Anderson, Alaska Firebirds
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:34:05 -0800
From: "Ingrid Moon"
To:
Subject: Re: Globe and Mail "Truth and Rumours"
Message-ID:
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that
ever has."
Margaret Mead
What you are saying is that On The Edge was banned in some
places/countries?
Ingrid
----------
> From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
> To: Subscribers to
> Subject: RE: Globe and Mail "Truth and Rumours"
> Date: Friday, January 17, 1997 8:22 PM
>
> Surprise! There are people and governments and associations that don't
> support women's sports. I almost fell over when I read that. These
folks
> must think we are running on double digit IQs. Buy On the Edge, read it,
> enjoy it. Its no thriller, but it is very informative. Actually, when
you
> think of it, banning a book in the '90s is pretty funny. To think that a
> book about women's hockey is up there with Fanny Hill, Tropic of Cancer,
> and Lady Chatterly's Lover. Makes you proud doesn't it.
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:06:25 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Globe and Mail "Truth and Rumours"
Message-ID:
>"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
>citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that
>ever has."
> Margaret Mead
>
>What you are saying is that On The Edge was banned in some
>places/countries?
>
>
>Ingrid
>
>----------
No, but OWHA was miffed at perceived unkind treatment and wanted the book
banned. Or so said the Toronto Globe and Mail.
Debbie
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 446
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