Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 437
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
2) Re: Girls with nowhere to go
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
3) Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
4) Re: Mothers of Sons vs. Mothers of daughters!
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
5) East Coast girls treating Cali girls badly - Reply
by email@hidden
6) Re: Girls with nowhere to go
by email@hidden
7) Dallas Tournament??
by Gwen D Wilkinson CPA
8) Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply -Reply
by "Joanna L. Avery"
9) Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply -Reply
by "Joanna L. Avery"
10) MANY THANKS!!! ("Girls with Nowhere to go")
by email@hidden
11) mothers of sons v. mothers of daughters
by "Deathe, Barbara - DC"
12) Re: Brampton tournament
by Lynn Witkowski
13) Texas Hockey?
by "Cheryl L. Smart"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:01:26 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply
Message-ID:
Chuck Collins wrote:
>
> Caroline,
>
> (I'm assuming you are USA Hockey)
>
> Here's another approach.
>
> Depending on what age your strongest skaters are, put together a team
> (preferably 12 and under, but 15 and under might work as well) and
> enter tham in a local tournament. For example, register them as girls
> 12 and under, and then enter them in a local tournament as a squirt B
> team. The advantage your team will have is that, since a girls' squirt
> team is defined as 12-and-under as of Dec 31, you've got girls available
> up to 18 months older than the boys' teams. That's a good leveler. If you
> get two or three girls playing their second year of Pee Wees, they'll eat
> up some boys' squirts.
>
> As far as ice time, don't look to the rink to "give" you ice; buy it, just
> like the local adult teams do for their practices.
>
> The tournament approach doesn't work as well for 15-and-under (Pee Wees)
> because there's the checking issue. The tournament may not allow you to
> register if the games you participate in must be non-checking. But there
> may be a local house league tournament that's no-check.
>
> An effective way to get yourself on the map is to get a big group of parents
> whining about how your team took advantage of the rules and beat their
> little darlings with an "older" team. Tell them there's nothing you'd like
> better than your own ice times and a league of your own.
>
> - Chuck Collins
Caroline: Chuck's ideas are good ones. Just one problem. If the rink
you are referring to is a publicly operated; DO NOT ALLOW PUBLIC RINK
OFFICIALS TO SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT YOU. You are not obligated
to play female only teams if none are available to play. As Chuck
mentioned, playing boys teams is perfectly acceptable. To the best of
my knowledge no one has been able to hold out on playing boys against
girls on a permanent basis. They will resist, but, can be overcome.
USA Hockey is likely to be of much help in that regard.
Our program, The Alaska Firebirds, struggles with these issues every
single year. It has been necessary, many times in the past, to get the
help of USA Hockey at the National level in order to keep our program
viable.
One thing you want to pay immediate attention to is registration. It is
already too late to register a team for this year, if you do not intend
to play the majority of you games outdoors. The upside is that this is
a perfect time to plan for next season. Your interests are, in all
likelihood, best served by forming your own association. Trying to get
involved with a mostly boys teams type of program will pit the interests
of the girls against the boys. There are exceptions to that and you
will have to make a choice. Announce your intentions. Seek assistance
from your District Registrar. It is well accepted in most of the
country (not up here), that ALL Girls/Women teams are competitive
teams. If the rink you mentioned is a public rink, put them on notice
that you expect to be treated the same as boys with regard to ice time.
That is, total time allocated and the time of day your team will skate.
It is against the law in most of the country to discriminate when
allocating public resources (Again, not up here. We're having to sue to
resolve this issue...)
Your greatest asset, after your players, will be their parents. Get
them organized. Have informational meetings, and make certain at the
outset, that they will not be deterred in the event that you do meet
with resistance. Although I sincerely hope that you are looking forward
to a positive experience, The Firebirds have not been so fortunate. We
have found that asking and planning for the best is well accompanied by
a contingency for the problems we always seem to encounter. For
example, we have recently been told by The Alaska State Hockey
Association (a sanctioned USA Hockey Affiliate) that our Midget team
cannot travel outside the state until the Boys High School Hockey season
is over! I don't want to seem to negative, but it seems like there is
always some way for the powers that be to dog our program. If you and
the other parents are prepared at the outset, the going will be much
easier. If things go 100% positive, you will likely be elated!
I wish you the best, and will always help in any way I can. I have a
pile of information that I can share with you if you email me directly.
Also, many that read the postings here are in your area (The Northeast),
and have been a help to us in the past.
Good Luck
Lyle
Special to Chuck: What do you mean that the Checking issue prevents
Girls Section teams from competing in Boys tournaments? Indeed the USA
Hockey rule book makes a specific provision for allowing Girls to play
Boys at the PeeWee level and up! I would contact Mike Johanssen (Girls
Women Section Coordinator for the Pacific District of USA Hockey) on
this ASAP. This is a battle we have already won in Alaska. Provided
that winning the tournament does not qualify the winner for
international travel, or District, Regional or National tournaments
(i.e.. Tier I or Tier II PeeWees and above) our teams may participate in
boys tournaments. There are some other exceptions, but they are very
limited. We have been in State Tournaments up here for several years
now! If you have been disallowed participation in State and
invitational tournaments and would like to see it change and can't get
help locally, contact me and I'll try to help you set things right! One
caveat, if there are a number of teams at your level and in your own
classification nearby, you may not have as much luck as you would
otherwise!
Also, remember that USA Hockey is very committed to expanding
opportunities for girls to play hockey. That means games. If
California or the Pacific District resists too much, I would ask Mike to
go directly to Karen Lundgren, who is the Girls/Women Section Director
for USA Hockey. She generally doesn't like hearing that Girls aren't
getting their due and is a great advocate!
Good Luck
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:06:15 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls with nowhere to go
Message-ID:
Sandy Irwin wrote:
>
> Hi Caroline;
> My name is Sandy Irwin and I can defineately help you. First - a few
> questions. Which rink in Manhattan and under which program. If you are
> USA Hockey will you be attending the Zone meeting in Long Beach on Sat.
> at 10:00 AM. I will be there as well as representatives of other girls
> teams in the tri-state area.
> I am presently the president of the Arrows Hockey Association located in
> Freeport and we have 2 girls teams. They are designated "A" and "B" and
> the team name is Island Waves. We play in the Atlantic womens hockey
> league and the Tri-state league. The AWHL consists of teams from Wash
> DC, Phil, NJ, Conn. Stars, Pelham, Dix Hills Rebels as well as Tri state
> which is Dix Hills, Pelham, NJ Devils and Waves.
>
> I am also the Secretary for NYSAHA and have many contacts throughout the
> state. I hope I can be of assistance and maybe even meet you on Sat.
>
> Sandy Irwin
> (516) 546-9447
Sandy: Missed your posting before I replied to Caroline and Chuck.
Hope that you folks have things well in hand and can help Caroline's
kids avoid the garbage we always face up here! Certainly things have
got to better over on your side of the US with so many teams.
Keep the faith!
Lyle Anderson, Alaska Firebirds
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:09:48 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply
Message-ID:
email@hidden wrote:
>
> I played with a girl from Assabet, boy were they unfriendly for 12 year
> olds--I guess that is what makes them so tough! keep up the good work
> Caroline-- NYC Only Woman's Spokesperson for ICE HOCKEY!!!!
Unfriendly Girls Teams!!! Holy Cow!!!
The Alaska Firebirds sent a PeeWee B team to Minnesota last year and
learned much. The best thing was the handshaking that went on before
the game. We brought this back home and do it whenever we play. Now
the boys teams that we play are doing it too! Girls hockey needs
ambassadors folk. Winning isn't everything!
Lyle Anderson, Alaska Firebirds
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:14:56 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Mothers of Sons vs. Mothers of daughters!
Message-ID:
email@hidden wrote:
>
> I find it hard to believe that a program would let a call be made on a player
> who is, as you say, thirty feet away. Are you sure it was the ref who called
> your daughter and not your daughter who caused the penalty?
I've seen this type of bad call in every level and type of hockey.
Perhaps you could send some of the Ref's that don't make such calls up
here to do some clinics! After all, just as hockey needs to develop
player, hockey also needs to develop refs!
Lyle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:11:58 -0500 (EST)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: East Coast girls treating Cali girls badly - Reply
Message-ID:
Unfortunately, I am beginning to experience something similiar. Where I
play, the few women 3-4 of us have only had experience playing with men and a
couple of months ago two women players who had played on a University Club
team relocated here. After adding 2 more women to our very small ranks, I
got it in my head that an all women's team would be a great idea and that
would could probably recruit a few more girls from surrounding areas. What
started as a good idea is becoming a bit of a pain in the rear end from these
two women. They have never played with men and seem to have a bad attitude
towards them. I came up with the idea that a friend of mine and former NHL
pro and former men's coach would coach us ( he's really into the idea), but
when I broached the issue with them, they very curtly said, "We want to keep
this all women!" My best friend and I (both never played with women) have
been under instruction from him and we both have all the faith in the world
in him. He's one of those guy's that genuinely "Likes and Respects" women
and has always believed in us and pulled for us 100%. I don't understand
this attitude, we could never come up with a more highly experienced and
competent coach, why cut your nose off to spit your face? I realize this is
a bit off the subject, but it may have a little something to do with the
attitude your daughter's team has gotten. My friend and I have so many
hockey committments right now with the different men's teams that we play on
that we're about to just shelf the idea rather than deal with attitudes that
are so totally opposite of ours. Any feedback on how we could deal
effectively with this issue would be appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:34:45 -0500 (EST)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls with nowhere to go
Message-ID:
Show em the show case article in this month's U.S.A. Hockey for starters.
U.S.A. hockey will supply you with the most recent statistics and how the
boom in Woman's hockey is the largest in hockey history. Do they want to be
behind the times or on the ground floor!
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 06:04:38 -0600
From: Gwen D Wilkinson CPA
To: email@hidden
Subject: Dallas Tournament??
Message-ID:
Are there any girls/womens teams who might be interested in playing a
tournament in Dallas? I have spoken with the directors at StarCenter, and
they have assured me that if I can get at least four womens teams, we can
have a womens division in the senior tournaments. Currenly, StarCenter
hosts two senior tourneys each year (Labor Day and News Years), but they are
thinking about only hosting one this year (probably New Year's). I might be
able to talk them into hosting a girls/womens tourney if there is enough
interest.
I currently play in the senior co-ed league at StarCenter. There are about a
dozen women who play here and a few more at another rink in town. I think
we can put together at least one team, possibly two if a few of our goalies
want to play out.
Also, if there are any teams who just want play an exhibition game on a
weekend, I think we can get the ice with enough advance notice. And maybe
take in a Stars or Fort Worth Fire (Central Hockey League) game while you
are here.
If you are intersted, please let me know.
Thanks.
Gwen Wilkinson
email@hidden
P.S. I have "e-mailed" with Rinksport Womens/Girls Summer Clinic about the
possibility of a womens clinic in conjunction with their Colorado Springs
Girls dates. Their plans are for a womens clinic in California, Michigan or
Minnasota (I can't remember which) and Alaska. Currently there are no plans
for a womens clinic in Co Springs. They said they would need at least 20
players. Their home page is located at
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rinksport/. If there are any others who are
interested, PLEASE let them know! Co Springs is a lot more convienent (sp?)
than any of the others.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:47:32 -0500
From: "Joanna L. Avery"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply -Reply
Message-ID:
Carl Gray is the director of Assbet Valley (508) 369-5369 (H)
For info about youth hockey in CT call 800-728-3366 and ask for the
amateur hockey department
David Harris was active in establishing the RI Panthers (401) 944-8954
I hope they can give you some helpful information
>>> 01/08/97 05:38pm >>>
Joanna,
>I can gove you some names and numbers to call
>I'm not sure what point you are trying to get across to people.
I would love any numbers and names you could give me. My point is that
there IS enough interest to justify giving ice time to girls, that girls
without ice time and girls teams to play on will turn to other sports
simply because there's no space made for them. We have a senior
womens team
here in the city, but an 11-year old can't play with us. We play late at
night, and we're much bigger and stronger than pre-pubescent girls. So,
at
least in this city, there are NO hockey opportunities from age 11 to age
19
for girls unless they are willing to play on boys teams (nominally co-ed),
which most of them find unpalatable.
I think most people agree that playing with women is very special and
that
the sport is different with men on the ice, either as opponents or as
teammates. Not to say that it can't be enjoyable, just that it's different,
and... I'll leave it at that. Examples of thriving, growing girls programs
can only support our claim that there is a market to be tapped here in
New
York City. We have enough girls for a team - I guess they'd be pee-wee -
we
just don't have the support (yet) of the people who book the ice and
make
decisions about where efforts are spent. A few exhibition games on our
ice
with girls teams from NJ, CT, and Westchester county would perhaps
drive
home the point that not only is there interest here in NY, but there is
already a strong (and growing stronger) girls/womens hockey
community to
plug into.
THAT is the point I am trying to sell to the rink. Boy, I hope they're
listening!
Caroline Roberts
__________________________
>There are a lot of teams in Massachusetts, and New England, that are
>thriving and have been for years. Assabet Valley Girls Program in
>Concord Mass is in it's 24th season and has won 16 national
>championship titles. The Rhode Island Panthers are a strong program in
>that state. I'm not sure what point you are trying to get across to people.
>I can gove you some names and numbers to call if you want to talk with
>some of them. (I'm writing a book about women's hockey and have
been
>researching this for a while.)
>
>>>> 01/08/97 02:12pm >>>
>Hi everyone,
>
>Listen, I have a favor to ask of anyone and everyone who can help. I
>assistant coach in a coed kids house league here in Manhattan, but the
>girls who are getting too old for the minor division have nowhere to go
>unless they move into the majors, complete with checking and
>adolescent-boy
>attitude. Most of them don't really want to do it. The rink is reluctant to
>support an all-girls program because they say there's not enough
>interest
>to justify allocating already tight ice time to a bunch of girls. We have a
>bunch of girls who are definitely interested, and we are working on a
>proposal to get ice for some exhibition games for this season and next.
>
>What I could use from the women's hockey community is
>
>1) girls teams in the NYC area who would come play on our ice
>(important to
>prove our point to the head honchos)
>
>2) examples of girls programs that are thriving. I already know of some:
>CT
>Polar Bears, South Shore League in Massachusetts. Any more
>examples? How
>did your program get started? How fast did it grow, how did you
>advertise?
>
>Please, any input would be appreciated.
>
>Caroline Roberts
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:20:22 -0500
From: "Joanna L. Avery"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Girls with nowhere to go -Reply -Reply
Message-ID:
Lyle
I've been reading your messages and notice that you are involved with
girls hockey in Alaska. I'm writing a book about women's hockey and
have a couple of questions: How long have ther been girls teams in
Alaska? How many are there now? (compared to boys teams?) It
sounds like the girls are not accpeted. Is that true? Why do you think
that is? Do you play against boys teams? Play in boys tournaments?
What other obstacles have you run into trying to get the girls program off
the ground? Have you gotten any support from anyone? Any light you
could shed upon the subject would be appreciated. Thanks!
Joanna Avery
email@hidden
>>> Lyle Anderson 01/08/97 10:16pm >>>
email@hidden wrote:
>
> I played with a girl from Assabet, boy were they unfriendly for 12 year
> olds--I guess that is what makes them so tough! keep up the good
work
> Caroline-- NYC Only Woman's Spokesperson for ICE HOCKEY!!!!
Unfriendly Girls Teams!!! Holy Cow!!!
The Alaska Firebirds sent a PeeWee B team to Minnesota last year and
learned much. The best thing was the handshaking that went on before
the game. We brought this back home and do it whenever we play.
Now
the boys teams that we play are doing it too! Girls hockey needs
ambassadors folk. Winning isn't everything!
Lyle Anderson, Alaska Firebirds
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 06:03:01 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: MANY THANKS!!! ("Girls with Nowhere to go")
Message-ID:
I just want to say a public thank you to everyone who replied to my request
for info/advice/help on getting a girls team going. Your quick replies have
been great, I think this is going to happen. A bunch of you can look
forward to hearing more from me "personally" :-).
Caroline Roberts
PS. Please don't STOP sending me info, just because I've said thanks! I
mean it more as encouragement and an invitation for more and more and more!
__________________________
Caroline G. P. Roberts
H (212) 780-9208
W (212) 448-5111
Fax (212) 725-1126
email email@hidden
__________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 11:35:00 EST
From: "Deathe, Barbara - DC"
To: Women-in-Hockey
Subject: mothers of sons v. mothers of daughters
Message-ID:
Judi - tell your daughter and her friends to keep up the good work. The
girls who refused to shake hands after a game need to learn to show some
sportsmanship. About not being able to play hockey in California - where
was Wayne Gretzky for all those years?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:37:57 -0800
From: Lynn Witkowski
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Brampton tournament
Message-ID:
Hi Cathy,
c.moeller wrote:
>
> Does anyone have information regarding the women/girls
> tournament in Brampton in March/April of this year?
> Dates, schedules, registration, fees, teams competing,
> and coordinator information is greatly appreciated.
> Let me know if your team (women's or girls) is
> planning to play in the tournament.
> Also, I'm interested in hearing from any teams that
> have played at this tournament before.
> Thanks in advance!
> Cathy email@hidden
The Brampton tournament is being held on March 27th to the 31st. They
will have all divisions. Fee is $400 (I think). The tournament
coordinator is Paul Driver, Tel: 905-454-0582
The Sudbury and District Girls Hockey Association has teams who have
applied to that tournament, and I think that they are in. We have Midget
A the "Jr. Vees", Bantam A the "Scorpions", Peewee A the "Skeeters" and
Peewee B the "Storm". We haven't been to this tourney before, but it
must be a big one, because it runs over 5 days. I believe that is Easter
Weekend.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you will be attending and what division.
Lynn
email email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 17:30:22 -0800
From: "Cheryl L. Smart"
To: Women in Hockey
Subject: Texas Hockey?
Message-ID:
Texas Skaters,
I have just been informed that I will be moving to Fort Hood, Texas this
summer. Do any of you know where the closest hockey is? My son plays
Squirt level and I play as well. I'm really hoping we don't have to
give it up for the next few years.
Thanks,
Cheryl
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 437
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