Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 673
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) New Women Hockey Cards -- Checklist Included
by Alan Chim
2) Re: girls team vs boys which has priority??
by karen braun
3) Re: Bag Boy
by widget
4) Re: girls team vs boys which has priority??
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
5) Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
6) Re: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
by email@hidden
7) Late Starters
by David Cosio
8) Re: Late Starters
by
9) Re: Late Starters
by email@hidden
10) Re: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
by email@hidden
11) RE: Late Starters
by ME? A RINKRAT??
12) Re: Bag Boy
by email@hidden
13) RE: Late Starters
by "Ashmun, Julia D"
14) Re: Late Starters
by email@hidden (Thu Trinh)
15) RE: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
by CMSI
16) open hockey on Long Island
by email@hidden
17) Re: Late Starters
by email@hidden
18) Re: Late Starters
by email@hidden
19) Re: Late Starters
by Syrilyn A Tong
20) Re: alt.sport.icehockey.women
by "Kenneth R. Veze"
21) Re[2]: Bag Boy
by Jan de Regt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:40:30 -0700
From: Alan Chim
To: email@hidden
Subject: New Women Hockey Cards -- Checklist Included
Message-ID:
Hi all!
I called Upper Deck today, and got the latest information on the new
Women's Hockey cards in the 97/98 Upper Deck CC Series. Unfortunately, no
Team USA players will be featured in the set. The set consists of 20
players from the Canadian Women's National Team. More information about
ordering this set can be found at: http://home.onestop.net/hockey/
Here is the checklist:
Collector's Choice 1997 NHL Hockey Trading Cards
NATIONAL HEROES
276 Angela James
277 Nancy Drolet
278 Lesley Reddon
279 Hayley Wickenheiser
280 Vicky Sunohara
281 Cassie Campbell
282 Geraldine Heaney
283 Judy Diduck
284 France St. Louis
285 Danielle Goyette
286 Therese Brisson
287 Stacey (sic) Wilson
288 Danielle Dube
289 Jayna Hefford
290 Luce Letendre
291 Lori Dupuis
292 Rebecca Fahey
293 Fiona Smith
294 Laura Schuler
295 Karen Nystrom
Alan.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:43:22 -0400
From: karen braun
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: girls team vs boys which has priority??
Message-ID:
I am writing from Ontario. We had a test case and found that, in a
nutshell, the Canadian Hockey Association was for "Players" -
note...non-gender, so girls play with the boys no questions asked. When
the Ontario WOMEN'S Hockey Association was born they were gender
specific (for good reason) to encourage girls to play who otherwise may
not for whatever reason. This IS gender specific. Right now though, one
of the neighboring communities has mandated that because there IS a
specific place for the girls to play (and this IS true) that if they
wanted to play in the boys minors, they would go at the bottom of a
waiting list and hope for the best. Period. Personally I think this is
great. I hear all to often the arguement that the Girls' Assoc.'s don't
offer enough competition. Well, if they'd all come over, we'd have a
heck of a league. Anyway, and you'd never argue me out of this one,
there IS a difference. Psychologically, physically, socially. I will
never be convinced that the NORM is that girls at a PeeWee level (13 and
14 years old) in any way, shape or form match the boys. I SAID NORM.
Yes, there are exceptions, but if the ultimate goal is Olympics or
Scholarships, if you are THAT exceptional - like you're basic Team
Canada (or US) player, would your interest not be better served in the
female league? Just my opinion, but I can already hear this one
coming...
Karen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:22:28 -0500
From: widget
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Bag Boy
Message-ID:
I too have a supportive husband. And, I too find it hard to tell how he
will react to situations that arise. Occasionally, it seems like he
reacts positively to a situation one time and negatively the next. For
awhile I was frustrated; now I just try to remember that being a
wonderful supportive husband is difficult enough without having to
explain how you feel about it.
The Harpies have been blessed by so many supportive significant others
and families. We almost always have a contingent of fans, even for
practices. The amount of time and money it has taken to get this team
going has been phenomial, and most of the time we are supported without
question. I can't immagine how we would have managed without the
support.
I also want to put in a nice word for the men's hockey community here in
Houston. A men's league plays after us each week and it never fails
that they will make encouraging comments to us as we come off the ice.
Most of the teams accept women players (good and bad) and actually seem
to take pride in the women on their team.
In an effort to provide someone for us to play regularly, one of our
teammates husband organized a group of friends for us to play. We
actually get requests from guys to be on the roster! They generally
kill us, but I never have more fun that I do with them. I almost cried
one night when our novice goalie made this great glove save and all the
guys came over to hug her. One guy told me he feared for his life when
he accidently took out one of our new (and still unsteady) recruits; he
said he had never felt so low as when his bench boo'ed him.
So, all you supportive wonderful friends and families out
there......thanks.
Lea, #2
Houston Harpies
--
email@hidden
*********
"Forget conventionalisms; forget what the world will say, whether you
are in your place or out of your place; think your best thoughts, speak
your best words, do your best works, looking [only] to you own
conscience for approval." --- Susan B. Anthony, 1863
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:54:14 -0800
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: girls team vs boys which has priority??
Message-ID:
karen braun wrote:
> Psychologically, physically, socially. I will
> never be convinced that the NORM is that girls at a PeeWee level (13 and
> 14 years old) in any way, shape or form match the boys. I SAID NORM.
I wholeheartedly agree!!! Within the norm are alot of great players are
just waiting for the opportunity and encoragement necessary to become
the exception. In a Title IX survey done here last year, it was
discovered that amongst boys and girls, no percentage of interest in any
sport was higher than that of girls interested in hockey. We have also
learned that the majority of girls that would like to play will not do
so if they are forced to start on a boys team. As we have provided more
teams, more girls have started to play that would not have otherwise.
We are particulary tickled by a young lady that cried big tears when she
could not even stand on her skates at the beginning of last season.
Tickled because she was a standout at the end of the season and has the
determination and grit of our all time best players.
Lyle Anderson,
AK Firebirds
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 22:24:34 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
To: email@hidden, Subscribers to
Subject: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
Message-ID:
>Debbie, Are you back yet? How did it go - camping and hockey, that is. I
>think hockey t-shirts ARE a fashion statement. In fact, if anyone at our
>cabin notices I have something on OTHER then hockey - they make a
>statement! Let me know, I'm anxious to hear from you!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dorene
Dorene,
Just got back tonight. It was quite the weekend. We got to Lake Placid,
set up camp and rushed off for the first of the 4 games we took in. There
seemed to be very little made of the hockey trials. No TV cameras and no
obvious press corps. I counted three people in the whole arena with press
passes. Now either, that is because Olympic sports are everday news in
L.P. or they wanted to keep the players focused and protected from media
distractions. Or there may be limited public interest (I hope that is not
the explanation!). The crowd was fairly thin but knowledgable and devoted.
We did not have trouble finding superb seats behind the player's benches at
center ice. The play was incredible although maybe a little too much
grab-and-clutch than we might like to see. There was still a lot of
heart-thumping end-to-end rushing, very rapid line changes and some very
nice crisp passing plays--all in the grand tradition of Olympic-style
hockey. And the reffing was strictly hands-off when it came to some
obvious penalties and then some calls that did not seem to make a lot of
sense to us. It was fairly competent reffing overall, though, and all the
refs were women, which was really nice to see.
Jeanie Sobek was really excellent from our perspective. Others that stood
out were Katie King, Tara Mounsey, Angela Ruggiero, Meaghan Sittler (it was
a thrill to see her Dad in attendance!), Erin Whitten, Sara Tueting, Carisa
Zaban, Lisa Brown-Miller, Cammi Granato (she only played once in what we
watched so I guess her back was really bothering her), (?) Magee, (?)
Haman, among others (this is definitely an incomplete list--many of the
players on the ice had their moments of brilliance in their play). The
game this morning between the White and the Blue team was a real thriller,
tightly played and ending in a 1-1 tie followed by a shoot-out that also
ended 4-4 after 5 rounds, and had to be extended to Sudden Death. Jeanine
Sobek scored a beautiful goal on her turn in the shoot-out but it ended up
going to the White team in Sudden Death extended shoot-out. The place was
screaming and a good time was had by all. It was really nice to see all
the camaradarie on the ice among the players in spite of the sometimes
chippy play. Heather Linstad behind the bench for the White Team was an
absolute riot. At one point she called upon the 'gods of refereeing' to
please have mercy on her team after one egregious call.
It was our first trip to Lake Placid and we would go back at the drop of a
stick! Beautiful place, great time camping, and I wasn't even picked up
for child abuse for firmly managing the chaos in our vacationing family.
Best wishes,
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
Message-ID:
I know that USA Today is covering the tryouts, so one of the press you saw
was unquestionably their reporter. I would wager that the others were local
press and The Hockey News.
Beyond that, the lack of press supports what I said earlier about a WNHL - if
they can't even attract press attention for the Olympic tryouts, there is *no
way* a WNHL would get enough press to survive. Fortunately or unfortunately,
there's very little interest in women's hockey in this country outside of New
England and Minnesota (very little compared to men's hockey, that is), and a
lot of prejudice against female players and fans (I've been repeatedly called
a bimbo, a puckbunny, completely ignorant of hockey, etc. on The Largest
Online Service for disagreeing with male fans on subjects like whether Tony
Twist is worth a used skate bag). There's also a great deal of barely
suppressed *anger* toward the idea of women playing alongside men - I guess
since hockey is such a "macho" sport, Erin Whitten or Manon Rheaume playing
in the low minors is threatening!
Given that, it's little wonder that girls are "psychologically, physically
and socially" so different from boys. I've worked for largely male firms,
and I went to a women's college. After that, I can honestly say that the
differences (at least the psychological ones) between men and women are a lot
less than most people think, and are primarily that most women act
differently around men as a survival mechanism. There are far too many men
who are so upset by the idea of women acting like independent adults rather
than letting themselves be led that it's a lot easier to act like a "girl"
than an adult. I've seen it happen over and over and over again.
And it really starts with early teens. Girls are physically equal to boys up
until puberty, and usually are academically superior as well. It's no
coincidence that it's about then, when the secondary sex differences really
start becoming apparent, that girls tend to drop out of sports, their grades
often drop, they stop showing much interest in science, math or computers,
and the female obsession with clothing, hair and dieting really kicks in.
I'm convinced that a lot of these changes are due to societal pressure to
"be a good girl" and "go along with the crowd." I still remember one
classmate telling me I'd never get married if I didn't learn to "dress
feminine," flirt, and defer to the boys - and even though I didn't use *any*
of those tactics when dating the man I later married, that comment still
stings twenty years later. Sad, but definitely true.
Lisa Evans
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 07:52:28 -0400
From: David Cosio
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: Late Starters
Message-ID:
This is a question for most of you women out there
who are currently playing hockey. How many of
you started playing hockey late, e.g. in your 20's +.
I am trying to get my wife to start playing but I think
I am somehow failing to get the message across. She
has this perception that you have to start at a very young
age like I did and our daughter has. I think that is a false
perception.
-dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:34:56 -0400
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Late Starters
Message-ID:
At 04:56 AM 8/26/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>This is a question for most of you women out there
>who are currently playing hockey. How many of
>you started playing hockey late, e.g. in your 20's +.
>
>I am trying to get my wife to start playing but I think
>I am somehow failing to get the message across. She
>has this perception that you have to start at a very young
>age like I did and our daughter has. I think that is a false
>perception.
>
>-dave
>
>
Dear Dave,
I started playing hockey three years ago at the ripe old age of 40. I have
no pretenses that I will ever play in the A league here in Miami but I am
the only woman playing in the men's league (at the C level). Fortunately
there are a handful of young girls also playing on boys teams at our rink
and I know more are in the wings as the sport grows.
Please tell your wife she is missing out on a whole lot of fun and the
opportunity to do one more activity as a family. I had not skated since I
was 8 years old (figure skating that is). Sure it took work and I am far
from finished, but I regret never having had the opportunity to play as a
youngster/young woman.
Give it a try. You'll love it.
Jake #8
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:42:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Late Starters
Message-ID:
I will be 37 in three weeks. I started playing hockey two years ago, when I
could barely skate. Some would say I can still barely skate, but I manage to
have a good time. And I'm not the oldest newbie on our team. Tell your wife,
if she wants to try it, do it!
Margaret
Brooklyn Blades
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:06:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
Message-ID:
I'm glad everybody enjoyed themselves at the camp. The cuts are made today I
believe after the games tonight.
Can anybody who was there to watch please tell me how Maria Dennis, Andrea
Kilbourne, Sarah DeCosta, Alanna Hayes, Winny Brodt did? Thank you!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:25:50 EST
From: ME? A RINKRAT??
To: email@hidden
Subject: RE: Late Starters
Message-ID:
I started playing when I was 21....that would be aboutu 10 months ago.
Please let your wife know that it's worth starting, no matter what age!
I've had a blast in the last 10 months!!! I know tons of people, both
men and women (but mostly men) who have started playing late, some in their
40's. It's just a great experience, and great exercise to boot.
Wendy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:32:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Bag Boy
Message-ID:
In a message dated 97-08-25 23:26:48 EDT, you write:
<< Dan was getting off the ice while I was sitting on the bench and he
addressed me as "Mom". Everyone turned to look at me. I don't think they
get many mothers there. >>
That's great! Reminds me of my situation with my daughter. My poor little
kid has been drug to the rink as far back as she can remember. When she was
3, I used to bundle her up, bring plenty of toys, crayons and coloring books
and stick her in the time keepers box while I practiced. She is the resident
Rink Rat Orphan! Seriously though, she has now entered her 3rd season of
playing and during the summer I take her right out there with me to play pick
up games. What a feeling to be able to hi-five your own child when you or
she scores a goal. I have been coaching her teams for 2 years now and what a
great feeling it is to be a Mother and a Coach, great combination as far as
I'm concerned! Your son will always have a better and more "well rounded"
attitude towards women just because his Mom was a Hockey Player!
Jackie - #22 - She Shoooooooots, She Scoooooooores !!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:46:53 -0400
From: "Ashmun, Julia D"
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: Late Starters
Message-ID:
Up until 1994, the largest sector of growth in female hockey was seniors
(18 and over). The passing of gender equity legislation in Minnesota
(1994) has and will continue to have a great effect on the growth of
female hockey in the USA.
> ----------
> From: David Cosio[SMTP:email@hidden]
> Reply To: email@hidden
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 7:56 AM
> To: Subscribers to
> Subject: Late Starters
>
>
> This is a question for most of you women out there
> who are currently playing hockey. How many of
> you started playing hockey late, e.g. in your 20's +.
>
> I am trying to get my wife to start playing but I think
> I am somehow failing to get the message across. She
> has this perception that you have to start at a very young
> age like I did and our daughter has. I think that is a false
> perception.
>
> -dave
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:13:16 -0700
From: email@hidden (Thu Trinh)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Late Starters
Message-ID:
Hi Dave,
I start playing hockey when I was 31 and now I play
in the advance division in out league. I'm never too
late to start playing so tell your wife to sign up
and start having some fun....
Hope that helps,
-thu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:57:02 -0400
From: CMSI
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
Message-ID:
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Maria Dennis! I know her from when she was a student at Georgetown =
University Law School in Washington, D.C. and she played for the first =
Team USA. Please let me know how she did, I didn't know she was trying =
out again.
Mary Wood, Manager
Chesapeake Bay Lightning
----------
From: email@hidden[SMTP:email@hidden]
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 10:08 AM
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: Lake Placid Women's Hockey Festival.
I'm glad everybody enjoyed themselves at the camp. The cuts are made =
today I
believe after the games tonight. =20
Can anybody who was there to watch please tell me how Maria Dennis, =
Andrea
Kilbourne, Sarah DeCosta, Alanna Hayes, Winny Brodt did? Thank you!
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: open hockey on Long Island
Message-ID: <970826121419_-1871751060@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Syosset Skating acadamey just added a special open session for Wednesday
Sept. 3, 10:20 pm 1 1/2 hrs....
516-496-2277 for more info....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:52:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Late Starters
Message-ID:
Dave,
I just started playing in February and I am 27 years old. I've enjoyed it so
very much since I've began. Although, I am not on a league as of yet, but I
do show up for skill practice about twice a week.
When I began I could hardly even skate, but soon it became easier.
Eventually I added all the pads and the stick. In retrospect, I should have
began skating with the pads in order to get used to them.
So with all the practice (at my own pace), I'll be joining the Women's League
at Disney Ice in Anaheim in Jan. I am so excited!!!
Regina
"She Skates....She Falls...It must be Regina on the ice!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:02:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Late Starters
Message-ID:
dave your wife does have the wrong perception. There are many women out there
who haven't started until there thirties. Keep encouraging her to try for a
position somewhere.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:29:30 -0800 (AKDT)
From: Syrilyn A Tong
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: Late Starters
Message-ID:
I began when I was 23 - years after I swore I'd NEVER step on another ice
rink (my dorm had rented ice back in college, and my ankles hurt so bad it
was horrible!). Fortunately, we have plenty of outside ice where I was
able to play with the kids (boys) during the days I didn't have a women's
league game, and I progressed rather rapidly, advancing to men's A league
within a few years. Yes, I wish I had learned when I was younger, but the
opportunitees weren't as they are now (sigh), but I make the most of it,
as should your wife if she wishes to play. Most beginner teams WELCOME
new players of any age, so take the plunge!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:55:28 -0400
From: "Kenneth R. Veze"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: alt.sport.icehockey.women
Message-ID:
>This is usenet. You can do anything you want. Doesn't mean anyone will
>pay attention. Especially in alt.*.
>
>Personally, I think this is a mistake. When the first luddites move in
>to prove that women shouldn't be playing hockey, how do you plan on
>stopping them?
>
>chuq
Chuq,
I created the newsgroup to bring together as many fans of the game as
possible. What do we have here on the w-i-h mailing list, a hundred or so
subscribers? I really don't think this is ALL the women's hockey fans in
the world. Do you? All you need to do is look at Andria's Guestbook
signatures. :-) Maybe these people will see the newsgroup and come on in
for a look. Heck, we can put the plug in for this mailing list and
hopefully get many more fans in on it.
That's all the newsgroup was meant to do. It was NOT meant to pull people
away from the plaidworks list.
As far as the "luddites" are concerned. Hell with them! They can speak
their minds and we can respond accordingly. The newsgroup affords us this
luxury.
Sincerely,
Ken
------------------------------
Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:47:53 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: Bag Boy
I also have a very supportive, non-skating husband who carries my bag
on occassion, and has never been on the recieving end of verbal
stingers - that we know of.
I also kept my name when we married (quite a while ago), and I usually
explain the different names by saying, "Well, Jim didn't want to
change his name when we married." ;-)
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Bag Boy
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 8/25/97 9:47 AM
I've never had anything similar happen to me, but my husband *is* supportive
of me, to the point of bemusing a workman. Let me explain.
When I married, I kept my name. This is fairly common in Massachusetts, and
we've never had any problems over the last eleven years. Right after we were
married, we had to have the drain cleaned in our apartment, and Bob got off
early from work to be present and pay the workman.
The plumber's helper was young, around 20, and he and Bob fell to chatting
about women. Bob mentioned that he was newly married and liked it fine, and
the guy agreed that marriage was a good thing.
When he was done, Bob wrote out a check to the plumbing company and handed it
to the guy. The guy read it over, double taked, and said, "I thought you
were married."
"Yes, I am."
"But your wife - she has a different last name!"
"Yes, she does. She kept her name when we got married - it's easier, since
she didn't have to spend all that time and money changing her license and
credit cards. Besides, *I* didn't have to change my name, so why should she
change yours?"
Stunned silence. "You mean you LET her keep her name????"
Bob, amused, finished the conversation with, "Actually, I woudn't LET her
take mine!"
Result: one bewildered plumber who might have had his paradigms shifted a
bit, and one very satisfied Bob, who still finds this incident hilarious.
He's a good one, even if the Dorito bags do drive me crazy from time to
time....:)
Lisa Evans
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End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 673
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