Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 659
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Change Room Dynamics
by "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
2) Change Room Dynamics
by email@hidden (PHD DANELLE R WINN)
3) Re: Change Room Dynamics
by "Rich + Erin Malinowski"
4) Re: Bill's Changing Room Dynamics
by email@hidden (Jules Smith)
5) Newsgroup update
by "Kenneth R. Veze"
6) 1997 North American Roller Hockey Championship - Women's Division
by Andria Hunter
7) Re: male Coaches and change rooms
by email@hidden (William Cumming (Deerfield Academy))
8) Re: Change Room Dynamics
by email@hidden
9) My Daughter on Andria Hunter's Womens Hockey Page
by "James D. Lorino"
10) RE: male Coaches and change rooms
by PETER PICKERING
11) Re: male Coaches and change rooms
by madalien
12) fundraising
by "Algoma Training Board"
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:18:00 -0600
From: "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
To: Women in Hockey
Subject: Change Room Dynamics
Message-ID:
I've found the whole discussion very interesting...
As far as jerks in the dressing room, just about every group has one.
This person will pick on just about any target. If a women wasn't there
he'd pick on any other visible minority in the room or the smallest or
quietest guy calling attention to their color or casting doubts on their
sexuality.... Seen it happen as a player and a coach and told lots of
guys to shut up. I'm sure the easiest way to get to a women in these
guy's minds is to wave the flag so to speak. A bully will always find
the best way to get to people.....Somebody in the room has to take
leadership and put the jerks in their place. The hard part is that it's
usually never clear when it crosses the line. Ultimately, it's up to
the person being harrassed to make it clear that the behaviour is
unacceptable. Then you can take action if the behaviour continues.
I've been on the other side of the minority equation both as a player
and as a male coach of a female team. I was coaching my wife's ringette
team and played with them in some of exhibition games where they were
short players or were playing a strong team. I changed in the referee's
room, the hallway or the men's washroom. I don't know what would have
happened if I tried to change with the women....I'd be interested to
know the female athletes on this list would react. How their significant
others would react.....
I'm currently coaching a female hockey team. Should I be allowed in the
room while my players are changing? I'd be uncomforable believing that
I made some of my players uncomfortable....What's the concensus?
As far as staring at your laces, I'm not sure how much camraderie you
can get that way. I think it would be best to be up front and look
around as much as the rest of the players. Either you're part of the
group or not. Besides, maybe some of the guys are checking the other
guys out too!
Here's another story for you. My youngest son was playing Tom Thumb
hockey (6-7 yrs old). The 6 year old daughter of one of my wife's
friends was also on the team. The MOTHER of another boy on the team
chewed out my wife's friend in the dressing room for letting her
daughter change with the boys and told her she should change somewhere
else. We ignored her but....Attitudes are everywhere...
Bill Hunter
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:30:52, -0500
From: email@hidden (PHD DANELLE R WINN)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Change Room Dynamics
Message-ID:
-- I'm currently coaching a female hockey team. Should I be allowed
in the
room while my players are changing? I'd be uncomforable believing
that
I made some of my players uncomfortable....What's the concensus? --
Having played on and worked with many female teams coached by both
men and women, it's my opinion that a team loses a valuable
opportunity if the coach (regardless of gender) never enters the
locker room. I think the best way to handle working with players of
the opposite gender (I have coached teenage boys for several seasons)
is to establish a routine and stick with it. For example, I usually
let my players get 90% dressed before I enter the locker room before
a game. The locker room is such a key place to review stratagy, as
the players are (mostly) seated, you have everyone together, and they
are less distracted by parents/ fans/ the opposite team. After games,
I always go right into the locker room, so as to get a feel for team
morale and to remind players of great plays and mistakes before they
are distracted by a million other things. After about 5 minutes, I
exit so as to give them time to celibrate/complain on their own and
to finish dressing. I think the main thing is to establish a set
routine, so as your girls/women don't feel nervous or akward around
you. Good luck.
Danelle Winn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:22:41 -0500
From: "Rich + Erin Malinowski"
To:
Subject: Re: Change Room Dynamics
Message-ID:
Our co-rec team has been together for 8 seasons. Locker room dynamics are
pretty simple. Everyone changes in the same locker room but no one strips
below their underwear and many players wear spandex and t-shirts. We
alternate who showered first (women one week, men the next while the others
sat in the stands and watched the next game).
When I first played on a men's team 10 years ago, two of the players
girlfriends' always came in the locker room with me (to make sure that I
wasn't enticing their boyfriends). Once they relized that I could care
less about their boyfriends' boxers and just wanted to play hockey, the
locker room escorts stopped. And they began including my name on the
posters they hung up at our games!
When I was the only female player with a men's club, some of the players
wives were uncomfortable with me changing in the locker room and from some
of the on-ice comments I didn't want to see what happened in their locker
room. Since the lobby and women's washroom were crowded with public
skaters, I changed in the ref's room. This worked out very well. (The ref
was back on the ice for the next game just in time for me to shower!)
Keep Skating!
Erin Malinowski
Chicago Rebels Women's Hockey
email@hidden
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 15:25:57 -0400
From: email@hidden (Jules Smith)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Bill's Changing Room Dynamics
Message-ID: <9708121925.AA27791@pinion>
> I changed in the referee's
>room, the hallway or the men's washroom.
How did you feel about this? Do you think it made a difference in your role?
How about player interaction...did you feel left out?
>I don't know what would have
>happened if I tried to change with the women....I'd be interested to
>know the female athletes on this list would react.
They'd probably react the same way, overall, as men do. Most wouldn't
mind... one or two might have a beef with it. Once at a pick-up game, a guy
tried to tell me that if he were the only man in a women's locker room,
they'd "bitch & moan". That didn't go over too well...
>How their significant others would react.....
Their significant others, assuming they're male, might feel otherwise...
I personally wouldn't mind it a bit if a man were the minority in my locker
room.
>I'm currently coaching a female hockey team. Should I be allowed in the
>room while my players are changing? I'd be uncomforable believing that
>I made some of my players uncomfortable....What's the concensus?
That's the thing... were you sought as their coach? Or were you appointed
by a league? Did they join knowing there was a male coach, or not? If they
joined thinking it was an all-female organization, they might have a problem
with it. If they knew there was a male coach, then they should be prepared
in the event he chooses to be in the locker room. At least you care about
their feelings.
>As far as staring at your laces, I'm not sure how much camraderie you
>can get that way. I think it would be best to be up front and look
>around as much as the rest of the players. Either you're part of the
>group or not.
I agree- averting one's eyes just makes one an easy target for a jerk-
you're showing them an Achille's Heel. Body language says so much...
Basically, I think you should just ask them how they feel about it...and
tell them to think it over & get back to you with their decision. (yeah,
some women like to change their minds.... ; )
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:33:28 -0400
From: "Kenneth R. Veze"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Newsgroup update
Message-ID:
I've pretty much given up on the "Big 8" for creating a group dedicated to
the women's game. Their rules and procedures are a little ridiculous! I
have posted a proposal for an unmoderated "alt" group entitled
alt.sports.icehockey.women in the alt.config newsgroup. To solidify the
proposal, maybe a few of the list members here can go to the group and put
in a few good words for it.
Think a moderated group would be much trouble to control?? Opinions on any
of this would be greatly appreciated!
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:44:07 -0400
From: Andria Hunter
To: email@hidden
Subject: 1997 North American Roller Hockey Championship - Women's Division
Message-ID:
I just wanted to let everyone know that the 1997 North American Roller
Hockey Championship (NARCh) will be held in Vancouver, BC this week.
The women's division has 12 teams this year. The games for the women's
division will take place from Thu Aug 14 until Sat Aug 16. The
complete schedule for the women's games is available from
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria/Roller_Hockey/NARCh_97.html
The 12 teams competing are:
POOL A
Black Widows : Southern California
Mission/Kuzak Hurricane : Toronto, Ontario
Team Gear : Southern California
West Coast Revolution : British Columbia
POOL B
Felines : Colorado
Franklin/Labeda Typhoon : Toronto, Ontario
Team Hystyk : British Columbia
Team Mission : Southern California
POOL C
Femme Fatale : Southern California
Nike Cyclone : Toronto, Ontario
Salem Capitals : Oregon
San Diego Riptide : Southern California
I'm #55 for the Toronto Franklin/Labeda Typhoon team, so please
introduce yourself to me if you go to the tournament. And best
of luck!
Andria
==============================================================================
|
| _ __ |
| ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_ |
| \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\0__/ /| \__) |
| /> /> \ /> . /\ ('\\---' | .| | |
| z z . z z \_. z z z z \_\_\ | | |
| ` ` |_/ |
| TEAM CANADA - WOMEN'S WORLD ICE HOCKEY CHAMPIONS - 1990, 92, 94, 97 |
==============================================================================
| For women's hockey info via the world wide web: |
| http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria |
==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:22:59 -0400
From: email@hidden (William Cumming (Deerfield Academy))
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: male Coaches and change rooms
Message-ID:
>-- I'm currently coaching a female hockey team. Should I be allowed
>in the
>room while my players are changing? I'd be uncomforable believing
>that
>I made some of my players uncomfortable....What's the concensus? --
The way I handle this, and have for all the years I have coached girl's
teams, is to allow time for street clothes to give way to spandex and once
the girls are just putting on the hockey gear I go in. Likewise, after the
game I come in for a few post game comments and then leave. The girls know
how to make the comments shorter, they just head for the shower and I leave.
Players will quickly l3earn the routine and it works perfectly.
--
William G. Cumming Voice: (413)774-1448
Deerfield Academy FAX: (413)772-1100
Deerfield, MA 01342 email: email@hidden
or email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:06:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Change Room Dynamics
Message-ID:
In a message dated 97-08-12 13:15:00 EDT, you write:
<< I'm currently coaching a female hockey team. Should I be allowed in the
room while my players are changing? I'd be uncomforable believing that
I made some of my players uncomfortable....What's the concensus?
>>
The key word is "uncomfortable". I think I have all the bases covered here
(well almost) as I play for 2 all male teams (year round) , 1 women's team
(winter season only) and I am also a Mite Coach for a team of 12 boys and 3
girls. I have never changed with either of my all male teams nor do I see
any reason to. I have been with one of my teams from our inception and have
been with them through 2 Championships and now a move up to the highest level
of league play. Just because I do not put myself in the position of changing
with them in the locker room has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with me being a
"Part of the Team". I am very much a valued and RESPECTED Player on both my
teams and was even voted as Assistant Captain on one. My biggest gripe with
changing with the guys is that if my presence even makes one of my teammates
uncomfortable then it is not right to do. An uncomfortable teammate is
someone whose anxiousness may carry over onto the ice and it is NOT WORTH IT!
I have been in the Locker Room on a couple occasions to celebrate and drink
Champagne after winning our two League Championships! The Boys wouldn't have
it any other way! ( :
As for the boys that I coach, I let them get dressed alone (at that age, it's
time they learned anyway) and I have a male Associate Coach who will take
care of them, while I take care of the girls. If I'm by myself without my
male Associate Coach, it is no problem for me to get one of the Fathers in
there to supervise any shennanigans that may be occuring and once the boys
are dressed, I'm ready to come in and speak with them. The boys that I
coach have shown the utmost respect for me as well as their 3 female
teammates. To them, I am "Coach Jackie" on and off the ice.
My opinion is that the best way for a female to be "part of" an all male
team, is to get out on the ice and play like it, "Teammates" are made on the
ice, NOT in the Locker Room.
Jackie - #22 - She Shoooooots, She scooooooores !!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:08:17 -0500
From: "James D. Lorino"
To: email@hidden
Subject: My Daughter on Andria Hunter's Womens Hockey Page
Message-ID:
Check out my daughter Emily with Andria at the Ultimate Edge Female Hockey
School:
http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~andria/WWC_1997.mypics.html
The camp was a great experience and when I get a few extra moments I'll put
some thoughts down.
BTW, Andria is great with the kids and is one of the nicest people you'll
ever want to meet.
Jim Lorino
Waukesha County Youth Hockey Association
Girls Level Director
Brookfield, WI USA
-----------------
James D. Lorino
email@hidden
Brookfield, WI USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:29:18 -0700
From: PETER PICKERING
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: male Coaches and change rooms
Message-ID:
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA770.D248E6A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's how my male coach handles it with an all female team. He comes in =
after we're mostly suited up. We look forward to him coming in to review =
strategy, our lines, etc., and we're always asking, "Is Mark here? Is he =
coming in?" He just asks if everyone's decent before entering. We have =
one woman who's rather modest and scurries to be completely covered up =
before he's allowed to enter. No one else seems to care what he might =
see.
He comes in immediately after games, and when he senses we're getting =
anxious to strip down and shower, he leaves, and we pick up any =
discussion outside of the lockerroom.=20
----------
From: William Cumming (Deerfield =
Academy)[SMTP:email@hidden]
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 3:24 PM
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: male Coaches and change rooms
>-- I'm currently coaching a female hockey team. Should I be allowed=20
>in the
>room while my players are changing? I'd be uncomforable believing=20
>that
>I made some of my players uncomfortable....What's the concensus? --
The way I handle this, and have for all the years I have coached girl's
teams, is to allow time for street clothes to give way to spandex and =
once
the girls are just putting on the hockey gear I go in. Likewise, after =
the
game I come in for a few post game comments and then leave. The girls =
know
how to make the comments shorter, they just head for the shower and I =
leave.
Players will quickly l3earn the routine and it works perfectly.
--
William G. Cumming Voice: (413)774-1448
Deerfield Academy FAX: (413)772-1100
Deerfield, MA 01342 email: email@hidden
or email@hidden
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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:55:21 -0500
From: madalien
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: male Coaches and change rooms
Message-ID:
PETER PICKERING wrote:
> No one else seems to care what he might see.
Speak for yourself, Barb!!!
-madeleine
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:59:53 -0400
From: "Algoma Training Board"
To:
Subject: fundraising
Message-ID:
We are newly established hockey teams under the Ontario Women's Hockey
Association and are seeking ways of fund-raising. There are approximately
40 girls involved. Please e-mail me with ideas for innovative ways to
raising travelling money for these teams.
Thanks
Lori
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 659
*********************************