Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 658
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Change Room Dynamics..
by Jan de Regt
2) RE: New Web Site
by "Wayne Burgess"
3) RE: Old Goalies - Knee Braces
by "June Wheeler"
4) Senior Women's D/Rec Tourney
by Shari Cain
5) Re: Playing Time
by email@hidden
6) Re: Playing Time & Ice Fees
by Judi Stevens
7) Hockey USA regional clinics
by Jan de Regt
8) A Good Story
by email@hidden (MISS CAROLYN R SIMON)
9) Re: Hockey USA regional clinics
by email@hidden
10) A Good Story
by June Nejman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 11 Aug 1997 08:08:35 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re: Change Room Dynamics..
I think that each female must make her own decision on where she feels
comfortable changing. I've done both, and I think it does come down
to feeling part of the team.
Having said that, and drawing on my accumulated experience of having
grown up with only brothers, working with almost only men, and skating
with both men and women, I really think I would have looked the jerk
straight straight in the eyes, and quietly said, "just shut the f***
up." Probably the other guys in the locker room would have taken your
lead and echoed your comment, because truly no one wants to listen to
that junk, but mostly no one knows that everyone else feels the same
way.
In any case, it sounds like you didn't let it ruin your week, and
that's the most important part!
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Change Room Dynamics..
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 8/7/97 5:21 PM
Hey all,
Just thought that I would share my experiences regarding the thread about
changing with the men. (sorry about the length..I initially intended to be
brief..)
Typically I have had nothing but positive experiences co-habitating with
the men in the locker rooms. I completely agree that the change room
dynamics support team building and build camaraderie. Although I am
generally quite private (even with the women), I really feel left out
changing by myself in another change room. I too, wear a T-shirt and
shorts under my equipment (and change those in private) and I have made an
absolute art of keeping my eyes down (i.e. tying and re-tying laces etc..)
in uncomfortable situations ( yes there IS always one in every group)
So, when I recently went to a hockey camp in the Toronto area that was
mainly men and found myself the only female on my team, I did what I was
used of...joined the team in the change room. WELL what an experience!!!
There were only a couple of men that have played hockey with women before
and were used of us changing with them. The rest didn't know what to do,
everything from being ultra ultra conservative to complete exhibitionists.
There were 6 teams and 1 women on each. Each women made up their minds on
where she would change, all for different reasons. In turned out that 3 of
us changed with the men and the other 3 changed in the designated women's
change room. Well, unfortunately only 1 women lasted the entire week in
the change room with the men. Myself and 1 other women lasted until
mid-week and then jumped ship and left our *teams* change room. I could
not believe how much of an issue this became. Of all the new and exciting
things going on in the hockey camp, THIS was the main topic of conversation
for days. In fairness to my teammates, they really didn't know how to
react. After it is was discussed over drinks after several of the ice time,
I seemed to have gotten my motives/point across and everyone agreed that I
was part of the team and should change with the team. The men relaxed on
the most part and respected me for having the courage to go into this
testosterone charge change room and really did welcome me there...EXCEPT
for one IDIOT!! This goofball seemed to have felt that I was in their
*mens* change room, not the *teams* change rooms and felt compelled to give
me a taste of men at their worst. "Buddy" pranced around naked
continually, and talked trash about women. To be honest it was
uncomfortable, I kept my eyes down, changed quickly and tried to ignore his
sexist/demeaning remarks about women. Finally on day four, the night after
the annual night out to the "ballet" (strip club), I had enough. The idiot
gave very specific details about the strip club using every vulgar word he
could think of to describe women and their body parts. I totally felt
trapped between a rock and a hard place. On behalf on all women, I could
not sit there and listen to his bullshit but on the other hand, I really
did feel like I couldn't say anything because I was supposed to be one of
the guys. So after the practice, I grabbed my hockey bag and got unchanged
in the women's change room and continued to change there from then on..
Did I do the right thing?? Should I have chewed the guy out on behalf of
all women?? and/or should I have stuck it out? I am still not absolutely,
completely sure. To me the whole point of me being in there was to feel
part of the team and to have fun, once that was removed by my
uncomfortableness, I felt no longer a need to be there. Virtually every
single man on my team came up to me and apologized for the idiot's
behaviour. They were all truly ashamed of him and told me that they were
ready to turf him out of the change room if I would come back. For me
there was no going back, I made my decision and I was going to stick with
it. I thanked them anyways.
I did not feel that reading this guy the "riot act" (as our captain wanted
to do) would constructively change anything. In fact, it would just
re-enforce his disdain towards women. It may have given me a moment of
short term satisfaction but I tell you the real satisfaction came when this
guy lost the respect of our teammates despite that he happened to be our
best player. Not only that, but as the week finished off, he began to see
me as a *real* hockey player, not just "pretty good for a girl". And once
I came second only to him in scoring, he swallowed his pride at our banquet
and in front of the team, sincerely praised my hockey ability as a *hockey
player* !!
I think that in a very, small way, I have slightly reduced his disdain for
women instead of reinforcing it.
So I guess that if I was to find some sort of lesson from my experience it
could be that although we as women hockey players have come along way, there
really is a long way to go. Or perhaps this is more about attitudes towards
women in general, not just women hockey players. I was stunned by this
*lawyer's* lack of respect and complete disdain for women. I can tell you
this, although I am no means naive and routinely hang out with men as 'one
of the guys', when it comes right down to it I am not 'one of the
guys'...what I am is a strong, independent women who is proud of her
womanhood.
One final note, I have to admit however, that I did give in to my
vindictive side once he left the banquet as the rest of my team and I had
an unofficial team picture circled around holding up his 'burning
jersey'..So long #7!!!
Hehhehe.... hey nobodies perfect ;)
Kristen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 16:46:19 UT
From: "Wayne Burgess"
To: email@hidden
Subject: RE: New Web Site
Message-ID:
Hi Kelly.
Thanks for the response. I was born in Toronto, grew up in London, Ontario and
now reside in Toronto.
I would love to share any other information regarding the site or me, and
appreciate the exposure.
Where can I get a copy of the magazine?
Cheers, Wayne.
email@hidden
----------
From: email@hidden on behalf of Kelly Connelly
Sent: August 5, 1997 7:21 PM
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: New Web Site
Wayne Burgess wrote:
>
> Hi all. Just thought I would let you know about my new Web site.
>
> www.hockeylife.com
>
> It's goal is to inform, educate, entertain and bring the recreational hockey
community in North America closer together.
>
Hi Wayne, I wanted to give your new web site a plug in our fall issue
of Women's Hockey Magazine. A couple questions for ya. Where are you
from...hometown? Also, I've been trying to find an experienced hockey
fitness instructor to write an occasional column for our
magazine...about 500 words. Any lead/contact would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kelly Connelly
Managing Editor
Women's Hockey
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 16:55:53 UT
From: "June Wheeler"
To: email@hidden
Subject: RE: Old Goalies - Knee Braces
Message-ID:
Do any old goalies out there (30+) play the butterfly or V-drop style and have
a style of knee brace that works for them? I am recovering from my second
partial tear of my left medial collateral knee ligament, and my physical
therapist says it's time for a brace. However, none of the typical
over-the-counter braces allow for V-style - in fact, that's what they are
designed to avoid!
And I'm WAY too old to change my style now.
Please respond to list or to email@hidden.
Thanks - June #30 (and in my 21st year of goaltending!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:01:11 -0400
From: Shari Cain
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: Senior Women's D/Rec Tourney
Message-ID:
SkateNation of Prince William is hosting a Senior Women's D/Rec Tourney:
Where: SkateNation of Prince William, Dale City, Virginia (D.C. area);
When: Sept 13&14
Cost: $500 per team
Sponsored by Louisville - 3 games guaranteed. Please call Dan Lichterman @ 703-730-8423 for registration or more info; or email me. If you can't make the tourney but are interested in playing a game against SkateNation beginner women's teams in Dale City, Reston or Richmond VA, please email me. We're trying to get some women's games together!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:15:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Playing Time
Message-ID:
I started playing roller hockey last spring, for the city. It was a six week
program. If I had the opportunity I probably would play all year round, but
since we don't have an ice or roller rink in our city I don't get to play
very often. Theres an ice rink in a city about 15 miles borth of here, but
waiting lists are so long It'd be a couple years until I got onto a team,
and since I've only ice skated once, I'd be lucky to get on a team. To those
of you who have the chance to play all year round, go for it. I know I would.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 15:11:19 -0700
From: Judi Stevens
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Playing Time & Ice Fees
Message-ID:
I agree, my daughter skates out all summer, she is normally a goalie. She
does at least one camp. Summer is the time to have fun, skate all you want
but don't worry about the competitiveness. Who wants to burn out before
the season starts!!!
Also, for a travel team in Southern Cal. expect to pay $1100 and up for:
only covers ice and referee fees
1 full ice and 1 half ice practice a week
16 games (within 200 miles - one way)
in house - $395 and up Sept. through March
1 practice a week
1 game a week
---
Thanks,
Judi Stevens
619/618-3921
------------------------------
Date: 11 Aug 1997 15:27:15 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: woemail@hidden (Return requested)
Subject: Hockey USA regional clinics
I have heard that USA Hockey was or is sponsoring Women's ice hockey
clinics in each of the regions this summer. Does anyone know of a
clinic for the Southeastern region?
Thanks,
Jan.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:06:24, -0500
From: email@hidden (MISS CAROLYN R SIMON)
To: email@hidden
Subject: A Good Story
Message-ID:
To All,
I just wanted to share with you all a little something I learned
today that made me very happy. It kind of speaks for itself as far as
the progression of women's hockey goes.
In the summer of 1995, I was heading into my first season trying
out for a hockey team. I thought I needed a little extra something to
help me out, so I decided to sign up for Huron Hockey Camp in West
Orange, NJ. I was under the impression that there would be a
scattering of girls...not many, but a few. I was wrong. I was the
only girl in a group of 40 boys. I was 14, and most of the guys were
older than me, not to mention bigger than me. It's not that they were
that much better than me hockey-wise, because they weren't. But as a
kind of chain reaction, nobody wanted to be the one talking to "the
girl," and I made only 1 true friend the entire week. Many times,
during drills, I would pair up with a counselor, because nobody
wanted to be my partner. It was very disheartening...by midweek I
wasn't sure if I ever wanted to play again. But things got better.
There was another boy there who was small, and it occurred to him on
the 2nd to last day of camp that since we were the same height, we
should pair up on drills. (A good lesson in the sluggish thinking of
men!) The last 2 days weren't as bad, I was actually beginning to
enjoy myself. But I would not forget those first 4 days of solitude.
I wasn't comfortable changing with the guys (as has been a major
discussion on this list lately) and so I changed on the cold tile
floor of the ladies' bathroom. Since it was a public bathroom I could
not leave my equipment out to dry, and was unhappy in my wet, smelly
equipment. Overall, that first year was basically a miserable
experience.
But again, going into the new season last year, i felt the need
to elevate my game. So, reluctantly, I returned to Huron. I called
them a few days before the session began and was thrilled to find out
that there were 3 other girls there! (One of them opted to change
with the guys...that's another story all together). So at least there
were 3 of us changing, talking. No, they weren't my best friends, and
perhaps in a girls' camp I never would have gotten to know them. But
it was enjoyable. There was somebody to pair up with in drills,
always a friendly face, someone to eat lunch with, etc. We changed in
the bathroom until the 2nd to last day of camp, when, the manager of
the camp had a brainstorm! Perhaps the girls would like a
lockerroom!! It was quite a change from the year before.
And now it is 1997. Although I am looking towards this week as
more of a conditioning week, I still kind of had butterflies as to
what to expect from Huron. I called them today, and there are 6 girls
signed up for the session I'm going to. They have a lockerroom for us.
This may not seem like such a big deal to most. But 2 years later
I still remember vividly the solitude of that week. Perhaps it is not
that way if you know your teammates beforehand or spend a full season
with them. But to actually have some kind of female representation,
enough for the camp director to take notice, is really quite
satisfying.
Just wanted to share...
-Carolyn Simon #21
New Jersey Selects
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:48:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Hockey USA regional clinics
Message-ID:
Or in any other regions for that matter?
Trina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:26:00 -0400
From: June Nejman
To: Subscribers to
Subject: A Good Story
Message-ID:
Dear Carolyn,
You are absolutely right - this is a good story. Thanks for sharing it.
This is was this list is all about, sharing our experiences and realizing
we are not alone and it only gets better and better.
Jake #8
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 658
*********************************