Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 532
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Nationals -Reply
by "Joanna L. Avery"
2) Re: Trading Cards
by email@hidden (Roger Dewar)
3) Re: Nationals
by email@hidden
4) Re: Women's Spring League/MARLBORO, MA
by email@hidden
5) RE: Worlds - IIHF
by "HARRIS, zharris"
6) Re: The WWC: My view
by Rachelle Thibert
7) We need teams to play!!!
by email@hidden
8) Re: The WWC: My view
by email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
9) Re: Trading Cards
by Brian John Rodgers
10) Re: Team Michigan results?
by email@hidden
11) Playing Philosophy
by "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
12) Re: Women's Spring League/MARLBORO, MA
by email@hidden
13) Whoops!
by email@hidden
14) Re: Nike skates
by email@hidden (Don Wright)
15) Pittsburgh
by "Kathy Buhl"
16) Loisting of Div I, II, III universities and colleges
by email@hidden (William P. Grillo)
17) Re: Pittsburgh
by "BRICKELL, DAWN"
18) Re: Nike skates
by "Angela R. Teague"
19) Re: Playing Philosophy/Styles
by email@hidden
20) Memorial Day Tournament: Girls' 12-and-under
by Chuck Collins
21) Re: The WWC: My view
by "Roger A. Dewar"
22) Re: Nike skates-Reply
by Wolff
23) Re: Listing of Div I, II, III universities and colleges
by "VIC'S HOCKEY SCHOOL"
24) Re: Listing of Div I, II, III universities and colleges
by email@hidden (Dan McPherson)
25) Checking, etc
by email@hidden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:52:37 -0400
From: "Joanna L. Avery"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Nationals -Reply
Message-ID:
You can call the rink directly and ask for directions: 508-229-2700
>>> Alicia L Roberts 04/09/97 11:47pm >>>
I need directions to the US National Tournament games. Can anyone out
there give them to me or did everyone leave already? I also was
wondering when the Michigan Seniors (both teams) and midget team are
playing. Thanks for any help.
Alicia Roberts
UNH Wildcats #31
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:07:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden (Roger Dewar)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Trading Cards
Message-ID:
>i hope the card companies are smart enough to include the best team in the
>tourney in the card sets...that would be finland. all this fuss about
>canada and team usa...the finns had a great tourney too! as a matter of
>fact their record is as good as that of team usa, less 2 goals! in my
>opinion they were the finest team in the tournament, best skaters, best
>team work...they were as close to winning the whole thing as anybody. and
>for my money, they were by far the most exciting team to watch, and the
>classiest competitors in the tournament.
>
>johnny r.
>
>Hey Johnny... I agree with you. As much as I love Team Canada (being
Canadian), I thought the US and Canadian teams could learn a lot about team
play from the Finns.
Roger in London
Roger Dewar
Communications Officer
London Devilettes Girl's Hockey Association
Chairman
London Satellite Site Committee
1997 Women's World Hockey Championships
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:28:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Nationals
Message-ID:
You can find directions at http://www.tiac.net/users/rrogers/page10.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:40:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Women's Spring League/MARLBORO, MA
Message-ID:
Lisa,
I might be interested in playing. Do you have any other women who live
near Malden? I would like to car pool if possible. I am a goalie (do you
still need one?)
Would we be playing the gold teams as well (I like to play on a team where
I'll get alot of shots) Drop me a line and let me know if you still need a
goalie.
Peggy
(Cameron) McKenna
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 08:08:00 -0700
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
To: email@hidden, email@hidden (subscribers to)
Subject: RE: Worlds - IIHF
Message-ID:
If you are interested in sending your comments/suggestions/complaints about
the Worlds you can send them to the IIHF. Their address, or fax, is as
follows:
International Ice Hockey Federation
Attention: Chairman, Referee Committee
Parkring 11,
CH-8002 Zurich,
Switzerland
Fax: 411 289 8622
Attention: Chairman, Referee Committee
-Zoe
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, its the only thing that ever has." - Margaret
Mead
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:41:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rachelle Thibert
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: The WWC: My view
Message-ID:
Just one comment about the Senior AAA women's league in Ontario. If you
look at the players that are involved in the league, you will see names
like Campbell, Heaney, Page, Schuler, James, Dupuis, Dyer, Merz, Hefford,
Pounder, Grnak, Hunter, Nystrom, Sobek, Krooks plus others who are active
currently or in the past with their national teams. Other players are
ranked as some of the best prospects to play for the US and Canada. If all
of these people play in this
league, it can't be very slow. I have seen many games involving the Aeros,
Panthers and Chiefs (by far the 3 best teams in the league) and some of
those games were as fast and exciting as the Gold Medal game at the WWC.
The OWIAA University league is quickly becoming the same. With the
introduction of a CIAU national championship to come next year, this
league will grow and become one of the premier places for women to play
hockey. Wouldn't this be the best place for women officials to get the
ever so important experience that they need? The games between rivals in
both these leagues can be as intense, fast and furious as any that were
played in Kitchener last week.
My 2 cents worth
Rachelle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:03:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: We need teams to play!!!
Message-ID:
Women's team in Cincinnati, Ohio needs teams to play. Any teams out there in
Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana? Please write me, we are desperate!
Jackie - #22 - She Shoooooooots, She Scoooooooores !!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:23:52 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The WWC: My view
Message-ID:
Just a quick comment on the CANADIAN officials who worked at the WWC.
They made me extremely proud. The officiating in the final game did
not reflect the tremendous ability our top female officials in this
country possess. BTW, three of the Canadian officials at the WWC are
also members of the OWHA. The fourth, from Quebec, is one of the
only women involved in the Elite officials division in Quebec.
Any of these four women could have worked this final game and the
comments (I am confident) would have been "what a great game these
women did" in officiating this game.
We had an all women officiating staff at this year's Women's
Nationals in Richmond, BC and I received nothing but compliments on
their abilities and their consistency throughout the event. In fact,
Ken Dufton, head coach of the Areos commented to me at the WWC that
the the officiating at the Nationals was the best he has seen to
date.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that not all the officials at
the WWC were weak and inexperienced, they just weren't afforded the
opportunity to work the "big" game because of their nationality.
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:44:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian John Rodgers
To: Roger Dewar
Cc: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: Trading Cards
Message-ID:
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Roger Dewar wrote:
> >i hope the card companies are smart enough to include the best team in the
> >tourney in the card sets...that would be finland. all this fuss about
> >canada and team usa...the finns had a great tourney too! as a matter of
> >fact their record is as good as that of team usa, less 2 goals! in my
> >opinion they were the finest team in the tournament, best skaters, best
> >team work...they were as close to winning the whole thing as anybody. and
> >for my money, they were by far the most exciting team to watch, and the
> >classiest competitors in the tournament.
> >
> >johnny r.
> >
> >Hey Johnny... I agree with you. As much as I love Team Canada (being
> Canadian), I thought the US and Canadian teams could learn a lot about team
> play from the Finns.
>
> Roger in London
> Roger Dewar
> Communications Officer
> London Devilettes Girl's Hockey Association
> Chairman
> London Satellite Site Committee
> 1997 Women's World Hockey Championships
>
i must admit being a canadian made it difficult for me to cheer for the
finns, but as the tournament progressed, ifound it more and more
difficult not to wax ecstatic about the finnish team. i believe the team
finland team canada game was the real gold medal game... and it was
close! the team usa team canada game saw 2 teams that play about the
exact same style of play go at it. neither team really impressed me with
their skill. i was able to see the finns play the usa in brantford as
well, and it was interesting to see the usa employ intimidation tactics
against the smaller finnish players. by the end of the game the finns
were really taking it to the usa team...in this contest there was no
question i wanted the finns to win. but, as i said before i wanted them
to beat canada too, because i admire their skill, and i really admire
what they lack that both cnada and the usa have too much of...attitude!>
johnny r
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:14:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Team Michigan results?
Message-ID:
Well I am moving to MN this summer for my senior year to play a yr of girls
varsity hockey, to get me ready for college.....I just set it up by finding a
housing family in MN, and registering for the local high school.....(I am not
sure if this was the kinda living away from home during the hockey season
that you were looking for)
Kellie Severon #30
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:30:00 -0600
From: "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
To: Women in Hockey
Subject: Playing Philosophy
Message-ID:
I am finding the discussion on playing styles and the future of Women's
Hockey interesting. I coached a Midget B team in Alberta this year(and
I loved it!). We played basically two types of teams in our league.
One team played what meets the apparent definition of "Womens Hockey".
It was fast paced, good play making and very little chippiness. I've
always tried to play a similar style because I personally hate stick
work and clutch and grab. I was a little short of talent but we gave it
our best shot. Each team has one or two players who pushed the envelope
but it's not a team philosophy.
The other two teams in our league played varying degrees of a physical,
chippy style - sticks in the calf muscles in front of the net,
bodychecking, gooning the goalie after the whistle etc. (One girl on
one team had served 35 minutes and one suspension 5 games into the
season). This style is more like "Hockey played by Women". Including
tournaments and provincial playdowns, I saw far more of the second style
than the first.
It seems to me that female hockey players are coming from 4 backgrounds.
There are the Female Only leagues, ex-ringette players(who are playing
hockey because they're frustrated with THEIR refereeing), the ones who
start from scratch later in life and the ones who come up through
"regular" minor hockey. Hockey is becoming more "socially acceptable"
for females and the number of players is rising dramatically. Many of
them play on regular minor hockey teams until the first or second year
of Pee Wee and then switch to a female team if one is available in their
area. Other female teams we played seemd to be put together only for
tournaments, exhibition play or provincials from girls in the
surrounding area. The backbone of these teams played on male teams and
came in as affiliates. I believe that as you see more and more women
coming in from male teams the style of play is going to shift towards
the physical style exhibited in the women's final.
Is this a bad thing? I don't know. It all depends on your definition of
what hockey is.......
Bill Hunter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:32:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Women's Spring League/MARLBORO, MA
Message-ID:
Hi Peggy,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, we do still most definitely need a goalie. (I hope that doesn't sound
too desperate...) And the teams we'd be playing would be mixed levels,
(a,b,& c.) so I think you'd get plenty of shots on.
We're going to have to work on the car pool thing a little. I live in Woburn
which is close to Malden, but I work in Concord, MA. The earliest games are
at 6 PM & most likely I'd leave right from work since I was already halfway
there and I get out of work at 5 PM, usually. But, if a game was at 9:30,
I'd go home first; In this case I'd be able to meet you to carpool but I
don't know the game schedule yet.
I can check with some of the other players and see who can do what... Please
fill me in a little more of your situation: Do you have a car & are just
looking to share part of the ride? Or do you NOT have a car or access to one
& need a ride?
Let me know. I think we can work something out.
Thanks,
Lisa
617-312-3069
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:39:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Whoops!
Message-ID:
I sent that last message to the whole list...
Sorry.
LJA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:00:40 -0400
From: email@hidden (Don Wright)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Nike skates
Message-ID:
>Has anyone skated in the new Nike skates?
Are they available? Where? I've tried on the new Nike inlines,
heavy and clunky. But I have yet to see the Nikes blades, other than on
Federov's feet :)
/don
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 15:09 EDT
From: "Kathy Buhl"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Pittsburgh
Message-ID:
Does anyone know of any senior women's teams in or around the Pittsburgh area ?
Kathy Buhl
#8 Susquehanna Rockets
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:24:25 -0700
From: email@hidden (William P. Grillo)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Loisting of Div I, II, III universities and colleges
Message-ID:
Does anyone know of a good source for a listing of women's ice-hockey
programs at Div I,II, and III colleges and universities?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:31:46 -0400
From: "BRICKELL, DAWN"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh
Message-ID:
At 01:00 PM 4/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of any senior women's teams in or around the Pittsburgh area ?
>
>Kathy Buhl
>#8 Susquehanna Rockets
>
No, but if you find one, let me know! I'd lie to play!!
Dawn Brickell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Angela R. Teague"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Nike skates
Message-ID:
I have tried on the new Nike skates, in fact I bought a pair. They seem
good to me, but they need to be broken in just like any new skates. They
fit the same as the Bauers, this could be due to the fact that they
really are made by Bauer, since Nike bought out the Bauer company. To
sum it up I like the skates and have had no problems with them.
==============================================================================
" "
" .......She Shoots! .......She Scoooooores!!!
"
" _ __
" ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_
" \____/|) <|> (|\____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\O___/ _| \__)
" / > / >\ / > . / \ ('\\____/ | .| |
" z z . z z \_ . z z z z \_\_\ | |
" |_/
"
==============================================================================
"Angela R. Teague
"233 Converse UVM
"Burlington, VT 05405
"(802)656-1526
"email@hidden
==============================================================================
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Don Wright wrote:
> >Has anyone skated in the new Nike skates?
>
> Are they available? Where? I've tried on the new Nike inlines,
> heavy and clunky. But I have yet to see the Nikes blades, other than on
> Federov's feet :)
> /don
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:01:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Playing Philosophy/Styles
Message-ID:
I take it that you are talking mainly Canadian Women's Hockey? Here in the
states (Ohio), I haven't even seen any women's team to make much of a
comparison. I've just been introduced to women's hockey here and I've only
gotten to play one game. Personally, being a female player who up until a
few weeks ago only had experience with men, I hope that women's hockey gets
more physical. Having only played with men, I really don't know any other
way to play. To me, it's just part of the game. I'm sure alot of people
will disagree with me, but it's the aggressiveness of the men's game that I
admire so much . If I took offense at being physically punished in the men's
league that I played in, I would feel like I have no right to be there and
maybe need to get on a bowling league or something! There's no reason why
female athletes in general or female hockey players in particular can't have
an agressive, physical style of athletics and hockey without cheap shots.
The one game I have played was fairly physical and I was grateful for that.
I would no more expect to be able to park myself in "my office" in front of
the net in the women's game than I do in the men's. If a
defenceman/defencewoman isn't making my life there extremely uncomfortable, I
don't think they are doing their job. Just my opinion, but for the future of
the sport, I hope to see the game be physical and aggressive.
Jackie - #22 - She Shooooooooots, She Scooooooooooores!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: 10 Apr 97 15:37:31 PDT (Thu)
From: Chuck Collins
To: email@hidden
Subject: Memorial Day Tournament: Girls' 12-and-under
Message-ID:
Our hockey club, the NorCal Rep, is hosting a tournament in Oakland, CA
over the Memorial Day weekend. I volunteered to be the tournament director
on the condition that we offer a girls' 12-and-under division. However,
to date, I only have 2 teams: our own, and Team California South. We
need 2 more teams. If anyone can help me locate more teams, or is interested
in more details, please e-mail me.
We will welcome Canadian Atoms, and we can consider Canadian Pee Wees as
well. We also have boys' divisions, Pee Wee AA, Bantam AA and Midget AA.
I'm working on a web page describing the tournament, but it's not on-line
yet. Check:
http://www.chkpt.COM/NorCalRep/
When the tournament page is available, it will be linked from that page.
- Chuck Collins
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:02:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger A. Dewar"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The WWC: My view
Message-ID:
At 08:49 AM 4/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Just one comment about the Senior AAA women's league in Ontario. If you
>look at the players that are involved in the league, you will see names
>like Campbell, Heaney, Page, Schuler, James, Dupuis, Dyer, Merz, Hefford,
>Pounder, Grnak, Hunter, Nystrom, Sobek, Krooks plus others who are active
> currently or in the past with their national teams. Other players are
>ranked as some of the best prospects to play for the US and Canada. If all
>of these people play in this
>league, it can't be very slow. I have seen many games involving the Aeros,
>Panthers and Chiefs (by far the 3 best teams in the league) and some of
>those games were as fast and exciting as the Gold Medal game at the WWC.
>The OWIAA University league is quickly becoming the same. With the
>introduction of a CIAU national championship to come next year, this
>league will grow and become one of the premier places for women to play
>hockey. Wouldn't this be the best place for women officials to get the
>ever so important experience that they need? The games between rivals in
>both these leagues can be as intense, fast and furious as any that were
>played in Kitchener last week.
>
>My 2 cents worth
>Rachelle
>
>
Rachelle:
I couldn't agree more. Until the rest of the hockey world catches up...the
best place to improve is right here in Ontario. The highest concentration
of talented players in the world play here, so it only makes sense to train
the best officials here too. One day the talent pool will be broader, but
until then, this is the place to be.
Roger in London
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:42:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wolff
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Nike skates-Reply
Message-ID:
> > >Has anyone skated in the new Nike skates? > > Are they available?
Where? I've tried on the new Nike inlines, > heavy and clunky. But I
have yet to see the Nikes blades, other than on > Federov's feet :) >
/don > >
This message is for all the people asking about Nike skates. I have heard
a couple of opinions on the new Nike skates and both of them weren't real
positive. First, my boyfriend tried a pair on and hated them. He said
that they didn't seem to fit as well as his current skates or some of the
other brands he's tried. Secondly, I've heard about problems with the
blades on the Nike skates. Unfortunately, I don't have specifics on what
types of problems with the blades but I do know there have been problems.
Heidi
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:41:21 -0400
From: "VIC'S HOCKEY SCHOOL"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Listing of Div I, II, III universities and colleges
Message-ID:
At 01:54 PM 4/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a good source for a listing of women's ice-hockey
>programs at Div I,II, and III colleges and universities?
>
Try the publication called the College Hockey Guide. Any college or univ. with a hockey program will have a copy and would pass on the address to you.
Yours in Hockey;
God Bless
Vic LeMire
President
Vic's Hockey Schools
Web Page - http://www.direct.ca/vics/
E-Mail Address - email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:03:30 -0700
From: email@hidden (Dan McPherson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Listing of Div I, II, III universities and colleges
Message-ID:
VIC'S HOCKEY SCHOOL wrote:
>
> At 01:54 PM 4/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Does anyone know of a good source for a listing of women's ice-hockey
>
> >programs at Div I,II, and III colleges and universities?
> >
> Try the publication called the College Hockey Guide. Any college or
> univ. with a hockey program will have a copy and would pass on the
> address to you.
> Yours in Hockey;
> God Bless
>
> Vic LeMire
> President
> Vic's Hockey Schools
> Web Page - http://www.direct.ca/vics/
> E-Mail Address - email@hidden
This is one of the best information sites.
http://www.cs.toronto.ca/~andria/university_hockey.html
Good links from here. Dan Mc.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Checking, etc
Message-ID:
I have been following the controversy about checking, reffing, etc in
women's hockey and I haven't put in my two cents yet because I wasn't sure
how to phrase it. I hope this comes out right.....feel free to disagree (I
have a feeling most people will).
I will preface this by saying that I did not see any of the world
championship games. A lot of people have made comments about the refs in
the tournament, and it sounds to me like the inconsistency there was the
same as it always is in women's hockey. The problem that I have noticed at
every level is that every ref has a different definition of "checking", and
thus in some games, no contact at all is allowed, and in others, they are
very lenient. The only way that I see this being solved is if the rules
are more clearly defined about checking and what is illegal, or if checking
is allowed. If players play dirty, that is a lack of discipline on their
part and control on the refs part. Its not an issue of men's or women's
hockey. A previous post mentioned a fear that womens hockey players were
resorting to "clutching, grabbing, hooking, holding, high sticks,lousy
stickwork (men's) game". Playing dirty has nothing to do with sex! Yes,
the men's game is rougher, but dirty play is illegal there too.....women
are just as as capable of being dirty as men. A woman who makes a dirty
play is not playing like a man, she is playing like a dirty player.....it
is not fair to say that dirty play is something men do and if women do it
they are just copying men. They are playing like a jerk, no matter who
they are.....don't blame men for that.
Dirty play and checking are NOT one and the same. Players will be dirty
whether or not checking is allowed. Dirty play should not be allowed in
the mens or womens game, regardless of checking. But I feel like people
are equating dirty play with checking, and that is unfair. Checking is not
inherently dirty. Someone wrote in a previous post "body-checking,
violence, bench-brawls are not necessary in hockey". I don't think anyone
is advocating that women's teams start having bench brawls....that has
nothing to do with checking. But hockey, because of the speed at which it
is played (by men or women), does have some innate violence - collisions,
etc are inevitable. Hockey, including women's hockey, is a contact sport.
Yes, the women's game emphasizes skill more, but I would argue that
checking, executed properly, is a skill.
It seems that most people on this list are opposed to checking in women's
hockey. Thats fine, but it seems like a lot of people are against it for
the wrong reasons. I get the feeling that people are implying that women's
hockey is superior to men's because there is no checking. Hockey with
checking is not necessarily "bad" hockey, its just different. My question
is, if women's hockey is a better game, as some people have said, does it
follow that men would be better off if they played without checking too?
Should it be eliminated totally?
Personally, I am in favor of allowing checking in women's hockey. I don't
think it would turn into a dirtier or inferior game. As a matter of fact,
I think that NOT allowing checking contributes to the dirtiness at times -
because players can't check outright, a lot of them try to do more sneaky
things away from the refs. I think it is more enjoyable to play with
checking, and here is why - if I am going after a puck with a player from
the opposite team and I am in a non-checking game, I can't go after them
full force bcause I have to let off at the last second as we near the
boards or I will be called for checking. It is not natural to have to pull
back, it is more natural to follow through with a clean check. Also, I
tend to play better and be more into the game if there is some contact.
But mainly, I think its just more fun....and after all, games are supposed
to be fun.
Becka
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 532
*********************************