Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 529
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
by Chuck Collins
2) The Vancouver Province
by Marc Inglis
3) Re: Game Coverage
by email@hidden
4) Re[2]: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
by Jan de Regt
5) Re: Officiating at the WWHC
by "Jase"
6) Women's all star game -Reply
by "Joanna L. Avery"
7) Re: opinions on the gold medal game
by "Lynn Witkowski"
8) Re: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
by Rachelle Thibert
9) Re: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
by email@hidden
10) Re: Game Coverage
by email@hidden
11) NY Times Coverage
by "Jill C. Philpot"
12) Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
by "Mary Owen"
13) Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's -Reply
by "Joanna L. Avery"
14) Re[2]: Game Coverage
by Jan de Regt
15) Re: Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
by Chuck Collins
16) Re: opinions on the gold medal game
by email@hidden
17) Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
by Ellen Haller
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 07 Apr 97 23:58:48 PDT (Mon)
From: Chuck Collins
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
Message-ID:
OK, I was in Kitchener all week, and saw every game played in the main
arena except the Sweden/Switzerland game on Friday.
Don Page wrote:
> The best of the referees here were
> from Canada and it would not be appropriate for the Canadian officials to
> referee the gold medal game with Canada playing.
In fact, I expect we saw the 5th best referee out of six. The two Canadian
women were top notch, and the American woman was consistent and courageous
(disallowed a Canadian goal on the opening face-off of the highly touted
but disappointing Canada-Russia game), although she allowed almost no body
contact. There was also a referee from Germany who did a wonderful job,
maybe in the top 2 or 3. But she was a "blue" level official (IIHF seems to
have Blue, Silver and Gold, which is signified by the color of their jersey
patch, and I assume that's in increasing order of skill rating). They
couldn't give the game to either of the Canadians, nor to the American. I
was fully expecting to see the German woman in the gold game. But the Swiss
woman was gold level.
Same thing goes for the lineswoman teams. It seemed they were paired for
the whole tournament. There was one pair from Canada, and one pair from the
US. Both of these were excellent. Why Isabelle Giguere isn't a ref rather
than line I'll never understand. The pair that did the gold were from Norway
and Finland. There were three others, from Slovakia, Germany and Hungary,
and I'm not sure how they were paired.
> Dumbroski did indeed do the gold medal game in Lake Placid and it was
> expected that it was her style to allow much of the contact to go without
> being called.
I remarked after the first period that I thought she might have had
marching orders from TSN or the organizers to let them play. There was
very little difference between what was played in the first period and
full-contact hockey.
There were constant bickerings about face-off locations. For example, there
was a Canadian penalty deep in the Canadian zone, and the face-off was taken
in the neutral zone. Captain came out to complain, so I figured, they'll
correct it. Nope. Maybe IIHF rules are different?
In the third period was the biggest gaffe of the game. As the US team
was breaking out, the ref's arm went up. Erin Whitten skated for the bench,
and an extra attacker came out on the ice. The puck moved into the Canadian
zone, Canada got control, and she blew it dead. Then she put a US player in
the box! Yikes. No coincidental, just one player from the team who had
pulled their goaltender. Boy, if I had made a mistake like that, you can
bet I would have taken one from each side.
And one other incident remnains in my memory about the officiating. It was
clear that the lines were not the best of the tournament, but I thought they
were OK. They were both tiny, however. I kept waiting to see them break
up a fight between the Angelas. One of them could not have weighed more than
85 pounds.
In the third period, the US was on a penalty kill, got control of the puck
and sent a clearing pass up the boards. It hit the lineswoman in the shoulder
or side, and stayed in the zone. The scramble that followed resulted in
another US penalty, and the Canadians had 1:30 or so of 5-on-3. Seconds
after the first penalty expired, Canada scored. A bad break, could have
happened to Mike Civik, but again it focused more heat on the officials.
I think it was an excellent idea to limit the tournament to female officials.
It should be applauded. But the fact that in both the line and ref staffs,
the Canadians and Americans were clearly the most skilled and experienced,
and both were not eligible to work the final game, made an excellent idea
backfire.
- Chuck Collins
P. S. Several people were picking on Cassie w/r/t two late penalties. The
people with videotape can check me, but I was almost certain that
Cassie went to the box for a penalty that was actually Geraldine
Heaney's. The ref lost track of who made the hit. I guess that
made up for her getting the assist on the game winner against
Finland.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 23:56:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Inglis
To: email@hidden
Subject: The Vancouver Province
Message-ID:
One of my assistant captain's of my team made a comment about the coverage
in the "Vancouer Province" of the WWC final. She complained that the
article about the finale was buried on the fifth page of the sports section,
after four pages of soccer news. I have to agree with her, Canada winning a
fourth gold is far more important than Canada tieing El Salvador in World
Cup qual match. On top of that the article was only a "quarter page size"
including the photo. She was so mad about it that she called a radio
station to complain and was told she was two young to voice her opinon
(she's 15). I thing she will be happy to know that I posted he complaint
for all to see. I thought that Vancouver was a hockey town !?
Marc Inglis
Head Coach
Tri-City Terrors Female Midget "AA"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 08:53:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Game Coverage
Message-ID:
it's amazing - check out the NY Times on April 7th - they actually had a
picture and coverage on the first page!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: 08 Apr 1997 09:36:50 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
Speaking of video tapes... I live in Maryland. I was in Toronto for
the Brampton girl's and women's tournamnet, and stayed Monday to watch
the Finland vs Sweden game. I was awed at the level of play, and
would really like to see the championship game.
Is there anyone out there who taped it, and would be willing to make a
copy and send it to me for a fee?
Please let me know!!!
Thanks,
Jan
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 4/8/97 3:29 AM
OK, I was in Kitchener all week, and saw every game played in the main
arena except the Sweden/Switzerland game on Friday.
Don Page wrote:
> The best of the referees here were
> from Canada and it would not be appropriate for the Canadian officials to
> referee the gold medal game with Canada playing.
In fact, I expect we saw the 5th best referee out of six. The two Canadian
women were top notch, and the American woman was consistent and courageous
(disallowed a Canadian goal on the opening face-off of the highly touted
but disappointing Canada-Russia game), although she allowed almost no body
contact. There was also a referee from Germany who did a wonderful job,
maybe in the top 2 or 3. But she was a "blue" level official (IIHF seems to
have Blue, Silver and Gold, which is signified by the color of their jersey
patch, and I assume that's in increasing order of skill rating). They
couldn't give the game to either of the Canadians, nor to the American. I
was fully expecting to see the German woman in the gold game. But the Swiss
woman was gold level.
Same thing goes for the lineswoman teams. It seemed they were paired for
the whole tournament. There was one pair from Canada, and one pair from the
US. Both of these were excellent. Why Isabelle Giguere isn't a ref rather
than line I'll never understand. The pair that did the gold were from Norway
and Finland. There were three others, from Slovakia, Germany and Hungary,
and I'm not sure how they were paired.
> Dumbroski did indeed do the gold medal game in Lake Placid and it was
> expected that it was her style to allow much of the contact to go without
> being called.
I remarked after the first period that I thought she might have had
marching orders from TSN or the organizers to let them play. There was
very little difference between what was played in the first period and
full-contact hockey.
There were constant bickerings about face-off locations. For example, there
was a Canadian penalty deep in the Canadian zone, and the face-off was taken
in the neutral zone. Captain came out to complain, so I figured, they'll
correct it. Nope. Maybe IIHF rules are different?
In the third period was the biggest gaffe of the game. As the US team
was breaking out, the ref's arm went up. Erin Whitten skated for the bench,
and an extra attacker came out on the ice. The puck moved into the Canadian
zone, Canada got control, and she blew it dead. Then she put a US player in
the box! Yikes. No coincidental, just one player from the team who had
pulled their goaltender. Boy, if I had made a mistake like that, you can
bet I would have taken one from each side.
And one other incident remnains in my memory about the officiating. It was
clear that the lines were not the best of the tournament, but I thought they
were OK. They were both tiny, however. I kept waiting to see them break
up a fight between the Angelas. One of them could not have weighed more than
85 pounds.
In the third period, the US was on a penalty kill, got control of the puck
and sent a clearing pass up the boards. It hit the lineswoman in the shoulder
or side, and stayed in the zone. The scramble that followed resulted in
another US penalty, and the Canadians had 1:30 or so of 5-on-3. Seconds
after the first penalty expired, Canada scored. A bad break, could have
happened to Mike Civik, but again it focused more heat on the officials.
I think it was an excellent idea to limit the tournament to female officials.
It should be applauded. But the fact that in both the line and ref staffs, the
Canadians and Americans were clearly the most skilled and experienced, and
both were not eligible to work the final game, made an excellent idea
backfire.
- Chuck Collins
P. S. Several people were picking on Cassie w/r/t two late penalties. The
people with videotape can check me, but I was almost certain that
Cassie went to the box for a penalty that was actually Geraldine
Heaney's. The ref lost track of who made the hit. I guess that
made up for her getting the assist on the game winner against
Finland.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:05:56 -0400
From: "Jase"
To:
Subject: Re: Officiating at the WWHC
Message-ID: <199704081510.LAemail@hidden>
Rachelle:
As a coach I always want a ref that is consistent in their call may it be
bad calls or good
call, but it's like you said be consistent don't make a call and then let
it go the next time.
I have to agree with you Rachelle she wasn't very consistent more like
BRUTAL.
Dave
----------
> From: Rachelle Thibert
> To: Subscribers to
> Subject: Officiating at the WWHC
> Date: Monday, April 07, 1997 5:45 PM
>
> Dave
>
> I was not referring to the hockey being the worst I have ever seen. Just
> the officiating. Both Miller and Smith admitted that if the calls would
> have been consistant from one minute to the next, you can coach your
> players accordingly. Of the 13 games played at the Auditorium, I watched
9
> of them. I always watch the refs and the goalies (I play net too) first,
> before I watch the rest of the game. I saw Dombrowski do other games as
> well, and it was the same type of inconsistancy that we saw Sunday night.
> I'm not suggesting that the ref tried to win or lose the game for any
> team, just that in order to do a good job, consistancy is the most
> important. I don't know too many players that would want a ref to be
> inconsistant.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:40:46 -0400
From: "Joanna L. Avery"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Women's all star game -Reply
Message-ID:
Where did you hear about this?
>>> 04/07/97 09:50pm >>>
I just heard the NHL Player's Assoc. is considering adding an exhibition
game
between women's Team USA/Team Canada as part of the yearly NHL
All-Star game.
I think this would be excellent exposure for the women's game! If you
agree, send the NHLPA e-mail supporting the idea to
"email@hidden"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 11:33:25 -0400
From: "Lynn Witkowski"
To:
Subject: Re: opinions on the gold medal game
Message-ID:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_01BC4410.AC3EE5E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Scott Perkins
> O.K., so maybe there were a few bad calls. But, a ref probably has the
> hardest job on the ice. You have to constantly be in the correct
position,
> be totally impartial(which can be hard at times), and pay absolutely no
> attention to the screaming fans, players, and coaches who seem bent on
> telling you how to do your job. I think everybody should pay attention to
> the players and the great game they had, not to that slash that YOU think
> should of been called or that goal that YOU think wasn't in. Consider the
> source. I don't think anybody should be allowed to judge the ref's job
> until they've been a ref in a game themselve.
> Shannon Perkins-#1 K-Wings
I don't agree. Yes being a referee is a tough position to be in during
such a game, but these refs should be the best the sport has to offer, and
they choose to be there. There are levels of certification that these
people have to achieve. Sorry, but the criticism goes with the territory.
You don't have to be a referee to judge one, just like you don't have to
be a doctor to know whether or not your getting good care and so on, and
referees don't have to be coaches or fans to know the difference between
good and bad ones!
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_01BC4410.AC3EE5E0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----------
> From: Scott =
Perkins <email@hidden>
> O.K., so maybe there were a few bad =
calls. But, a ref probably has the
> hardest job on the ice. You =
have to constantly be in the correct position,
> be totally =
impartial(which can be hard at times), and pay absolutely no
> =
attention to the screaming fans, players, and coaches who seem bent =
on
> telling you how to do your job. I think everybody should pay =
attention to
> the players and the great game they had, not to =
that slash that YOU think
> should of been called or that goal =
that YOU think wasn't in. Consider the
> source. I don't think =
anybody should be allowed to judge the ref's job
> until they've =
been a ref in a game themselve.
> Shannon Perkins-#1 =
K-Wings
I don't agree. Yes being a referee is a tough =
position to be in during such a game, but these refs should be the best =
the sport has to offer, and they choose to be there. There are levels of =
certification that these people have to achieve. Sorry, but the =
criticism goes with the territory.
You don't have to be a =
referee to judge one, just like you don't have to be a doctor to know =
whether or not your getting good care and so on, and referees don't have =
to be coaches or fans to know the difference between good and bad =
ones!
Lynn
------=_NextPart_000_01BC4410.AC3EE5E0--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:43:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rachelle Thibert
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: Opinions on the Gold Medal Game
Message-ID:
Perhaps a possible solution to the refs not having the experience to do
the high pressure games would be to send some of them to North America to
ref some high level women's hockey. The Senior AAA COWHL league, ECAC and
OWIAA leagues could use some more officials. These are all high level
games that are fast and showcase many of the players in the national
programs for the US and Canada. If European refs cannot find good quality,
high caliber games to officiate in Europe, maybe they should come here.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 97 10:01:30 PST
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
Message-ID:
Liam - you wrote>
> It seems to me that the best female hockey players in the world
deserve the best officials in the world regardless of gender.
A few years ago I might have agreed with you, but not today.
Experience is the best teacher and the female refs will never
become the "best officials" if not give the opportunity to
officiate games at the top level.
Women Refs as well as women players need to be given the
opportunity to perform and learn. In one review of the
Championship it was noted that the Chinese team will have trouble
improving because of lack of competition at home. How will
female refs improve if they are not given the opportunity to call
games at the higher levels if all the "plum jobs" are given over
to the experienced male refs? The male ref that is the "best"
available, only got to that point by ref'ing endless games and
learning over the years.
It is reverse discrimination, for now, to make up for the bias of
the past, but in the end we will end up with quality refs
regardless of gender. But it will take time.
I am sure that Dombrowski has reviewed the tapes and is learning
from her mistakes. Perhaps this shows instead, that at Olympic
or World level, the officiating needs to be on par with the NHL.
Use video review and have the off-ice officiating that supports
the on-ice officials. We may need to improve the system, not the
people, eh?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 13:29:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Game Coverage
Message-ID:
I was informed of an article in the New York Times yeterday. I haven't had a
chance to read it but I guess womens hockey made the cover story! Not the
cover of the sports but the whole paper! I'm not sure if the medal game was
in the article but I assumed it would be since it was the day after the game
(Mon. April 7). Finally some recognition we deserve!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:45:29 -0400
From: "Jill C. Philpot"
To: email@hidden
Subject: NY Times Coverage
Message-ID:
Hello,
For those interested in the NY Times articles the following addresses may
help you:
For the story about the championships:
http://www.nytimes.com/97/04/07/news/sports/hkw-championship.html
For the web front page for April 7, 1997:
http://www.nytimes.com/97/04/07/front/
For a scanned image of the actual hardcopy front page of April 7, 1997:
http://www.nytimes.com/97/04/07/front/scan.html
If this is your first time visiting the NY Times you will be required to
set up a login name and password but the service is free.
Being on the front page of such a prestigious newspaper is excellent for
our increasingly popular sport!
Yours truly,
Jill Philpot
Chesapeake Bay Lightning
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 97 11:10:18 CST
From: "Mary Owen"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
Message-ID:
You wrote:
<
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's -Reply
Message-ID:
If you are having problems getting high quality games and are
consistently passed over by less experienced males, have you
considered lodging a complaint with USAHockey? I know they are very
proud of what they are doing for female refs and refs for female games,
so I'm sure they would be interested. I know it is sometimes hard to get
action from "the higher powers", but they should be aware of what's
going on. It's a major slap in the face to them and all that they have done
for the National Team to have female refs wallowing in low quality games
because they aren't given an opportunity to improve and reach higher
levels.
>>> "Mary Owen" 04/08/97 02:15pm >>>
You wrote:
<
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: Game Coverage
I tried to find it on internet, but it doesn't seem the New York Times
puts their sports page on the internet. Darn!
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Game Coverage
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 4/8/97 1:31 PM
I was informed of an article in the New York Times yeterday. I haven't had a
chance to read it but I guess womens hockey made the cover story! Not the
cover of the sports but the whole paper! I'm not sure if the medal game was
in the article but I assumed it would be since it was the day after the game
(Mon. April 7). Finally some recognition we deserve!!
------------------------------
Date: 08 Apr 97 12:17:43 PDT (Tue)
From: Chuck Collins
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
Message-ID:
Mary Owen wrote:
> You wrote:
>
> < < < <
>
> I haven't entered this thread about refs so far but I must say
> that I completely agree with you about this one point. Here in the bay
> area, where allegedly we are a bastion of liberal thinkers, the female
> refs have to fight to get low level kids games. Forget the adult games
> where maybe we are given 5 a month.
Hold your horses here. I can easily give you a list of male refs in the Bay
Area that are in the same if not worse position. You get _A LOT_ more games
than I do.
The scheduling system and new referee development system in the Bay Area is
broken. Period. If you think it has to do with being female, go ahead, but
you are doing a disservice to your cause.
- Chuck Collins
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:17:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: opinions on the gold medal game
Message-ID:
Sorry, Shannon, but if you'd been there or been able to see it on tv, you'd
agree on the reffing. One call made right in front of us was a direct result
OF the crowd reaction -- the ref had left her arm down, then, with a quick
glance over her shoulder at the crowd that had started roaring (definitely,
there weren't any players behind or beside her), she raised it -- quite a few
seconds after the infraction, but not as a result of some new infraction.
There were others that seemed a result of crowd reaction, but not so plainly.
So you see even by your definition, she wasn't doing her job.
At another point, she raised her arm for a delayed penalty that, seriously,
all thought was against Canada -- the US goalie went to her bench, even --
but when she blew the whistle, she pointed to a US player.
When even the winning coach complains she was confused by the calls, it's a
pretty clear sign. Nobody thinks it's an easy job. Nobody thinks she was a
dirty ref. She was just in over her head, clearly nervous and unable to keep
up.
Margaret
BBlades
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:30:59 +0100
From: Ellen Haller
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re[2]: Male Ref's vs Female Ref's
Message-ID:
Yo Mary,
I haven't done the Rx yet cuz you said you'd call me with the number of the
pharmacy. Let me know what it is if you still want me to do it for you.
Thanks.
-Ellen
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 529
*********************************