Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 362
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
by email@hidden
2) Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
by jennifer diane carder
3) RE: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
by Deanna Manson
4) Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
by Rhonda Paprocki
5)
by email@hidden (Sheryl-Lyn Ekberg)
6) RE: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
by Deanna Manson
7) A Small Victory for Women in Hockey
by Deanna Manson
8) Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
by email@hidden
9) Referrees
by email@hidden (Louise)
10) Men's vs. Women's Hockey
by Ingrid Moon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 19:15:23 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
Message-ID:
Debbie Minden wrote:
>I have two daughters who play ice hockey and am hoping to become a
>grandmother some day. I was looking into the need for pelvic protectors
>and asked a friend who is an obstetrician/gynecologist about this question.
>He said that anything that people think needs protecting i.e., ovaries and
>uterus, is so deep in the pelvis and protected by bony prominences, that
>the way a pelvic protector was made, it wasn't of any use. He said that
>protection for the vulva was probably more important, but the construction
>of hockey pants probably made that unnecessary as well (is that really
>true?). So, my question is, does anyone have any information on the
>origins of the pelvic protector, who designed it, how long it has been in
>use, is it regulation equipment, etc? Also, (and you can answer privately
>if you wish) has anyone suffered any kind of female-specific injury that
>contradicts or supports my Ob/gyn friend? I have tried to get in touch
>with Protex in Guelph, ON Canada who makes a Jill, but haven't had much
>luck. Does anyone know of another company that makes them?
>I have also heard that someone is or wants to manufacture more
>female-friendly protective hockey gear. Does anyone know who it is and
>where they are so I can contact them?
Debbie (and all)--
I can't answer many of your questions about pelvic protectors, but I STRONGLY
encourage their use, if only on the better-safe-than-sorry premise. To say
they are of no use is irresposible medicine, I think (sounds like a man)!
They're not expensive, they're not really uncomfortable, IMO, and even if no
serious injury results, it really can be PAINFUL to fall or take a shot in
the pelvic area if you're not wearing one. I'm a goalie, and I didn't play
for long without one. It only took one good one.... Your daughters may not
be at such a level or age to play with men, but I have heard of a goalie who
had a fractured pelvic bone--this is serious! Your kids may never have a
situation in which a shot would come at them or they would fall and have
their pelvic regions injured, but personally I would much rather be wearing
one just in case.
I have a goalie pelvic protector made by D&R. It is great! I know they also
make regular ones for non-goalies, and the one of these I owned held up a lot
better and lasted a lot longer than the one I replaced it with (when I lost
it) which I think was made by Cooper.
As far as other equipment for women and girls, I just read in American Hockey
that Louisville is unveiling a complete line of such equipment. The article
says to see your retailer to get it or call Kelly Dyer, a Louisville Hockey
rep, at (502) 588-7343 or John Birnsteel of Doe-Anderson PR at (502) 589-1700
for information about the equipment. Great news!
Good luck--I hope this helps!
Holly
Chicago Ice
2-0!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:05:44 -0600 (CST)
From: jennifer diane carder
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
Message-ID:
Hello, I'm new to the list so I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My
name is Jen and I play for the University of Illinios. We just started a
new league here in the Midwest that will hopefully incorporate only
colleges because we had a little trouble playing girls who were too young
for us. Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas about how
to help the refs understand our games. We were just in Wisconsin,
Madison and the Refs were laughing at us. They admitted that they "just
didn't understand women's hockey". I think they thought we should be
weaker and hit less. They also said it would just take time so they
could get accustomed to us. However, until then, we're going to have bad
refs. I need some ideas about how to help the refs understand that we
are serious players and they need to take us serious. I have a feeling
that they kinda think women's hockey is just a big joke. By they way, I
don't want you'll to take this the wrong way, we don't have a problem
with all the refs...just some of them. Thanks for your time.
Jen
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:10:06 -0400
From: Deanna Manson
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
Message-ID:
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC503.69493600
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I was playing intersection hockey with the guys last year and was hit by
a slapshot as I was falling in front of the net (I know, not smart). I saw him
wind up as I was falling and my feet were flying upward - the shot hit me
just below my buttocks on the left side (I found out later that I was credited
with the goal). When it hit the part of me that hurt the most was not the
point of impact but rather my more (most) sensitive area. I feared the worst.
I was wearing a jill (made by "Longdon" - sponge and good vulva protection
but no hard plastic so it not the best), but I fear that if the shot had landed
slightly to the right I would have been in a world of hurt even with the jill.
Deanna Manson
Greenwood, Nova Scotia, Canada
email@hidden
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC503.69493600
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBC503.69493600--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:33:11 GMT
From: Rhonda Paprocki
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
Message-ID:
>for us. Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas about how
>to help the refs understand our games. We were just in Wisconsin,
>Madison and the Refs were laughing at us. They admitted that they "just
>didn't understand women's hockey". I think they thought we should be
>weaker and hit less. They also said it would just take time so they
>could get accustomed to us. However, until then, we're going to have bad
>refs. I need some ideas about how to help the refs understand that we
>are serious players and they need to take us serious. I have a feeling
Good luck with the refs. We've had women's teams out of our rink for the
last 6 years, and we still have ref problems. Refs aren't always around
for long. Some don't call anything (I guess thinking that we're checking),
some call everything (even just touching), some call 2 line passes (which
we don't play by). Some are jerks, some are nice, and some just aren't
paying attention.
Only suggestion I have is to have a brief highlight of the rules that
you play by that aren't standard for seniors (ie no checking), that you
can have full slapshot, whether you play 2 line passing, etc. and give
a copy to the refs before the game as they are dressing.... Highlight any
rules that have been problems. Can't hurt to note which refs are good/bad
and request the good ones and request not to have the bad ones.
Maybe also mention that although you are all club teams now, you're working
towards improving the teams and requesting varsity status. And that
women's hockey is a medal sport in '98!
Rhonda
Team Michigan Tornados
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:37:12 -0600
From: email@hidden (Sheryl-Lyn Ekberg)
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
Message-ID:
>Hello, I'm new to the list so I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. My
>name is Jen and I play for the University of Illinios. We just started a
>new league here in the Midwest that will hopefully incorporate only
>colleges because we had a little trouble playing girls who were too young
>for us. Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas about how
>to help the refs understand our games. We were just in Wisconsin,
>Madison and the Refs were laughing at us. They admitted that they "just
>didn't understand women's hockey". I think they thought we should be
>weaker and hit less. They also said it would just take time so they
>could get accustomed to us. However, until then, we're going to have bad
>refs. I need some ideas about how to help the refs understand that we
>are serious players and they need to take us serious. I have a feeling
>that they kinda think women's hockey is just a big joke. By they way, I
>don't want you'll to take this the wrong way, we don't have a problem
>with all the refs...just some of them. Thanks for your time.
There are actually several things you can do.
1. It is no check so for a referee it is like refereeing a squirt game, body
contact wise except, that Women can take a slap shot.
2. Women need to become referees.
3. Read the rule book. All teams follow USA rules.
4. Talk with the Referee Supervisor about where the problems are in calling
the game and define what should be done.
5. Ask the supervisor to assign only referees who want to do your games not
those who have no interest.
I am a referee and a player and I've done boys (checking and non-checking),
girls and women. We had problems with male referees taking us seriously many
years ago. If the referees do not change their attitude, take your business
to another district. Let them know the problems you've faced and how things
should change to help improve.
P.S. Wisconsin was a part of our league since I can remember (at least 14
years) and we've have always had a hard time with Madison referees. It is
obvious by the previous sentence that refereeing women is not new to them, and
they should not be using such a cheap excuse. I view it as a cope out on
their part and would not give them anymore business.
Sheryl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:57:49 -0400
From: Deanna Manson
To: "'Womens Hockey List'"
Subject: RE: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
Message-ID:
I was playing intersection hockey with the guys last year and was hit by
a slapshot as I was falling in front of the net (I know, not smart). I saw him
wind up as I was falling and my feet were flying upward - the shot hit me
just below my buttocks on the left side (I found out later that I was credited
with the goal). When it hit the part of me that hurt the most was not the
point of impact but rather my more (most) sensitive area. I feared the worst.
I was wearing a jill (made by "Longdon" - sponge and good vulva protection
but no hard plastic so it not the best), but I fear that if the shot had landed
slightly to the right I would have been in a world of hurt even with the jill.
Deanna Manson
Greenwood, Nova Scotia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:58:21 -0400
From: Deanna Manson
To: "'Womens Hockey List'"
Subject: A Small Victory for Women in Hockey
Message-ID:
Greetings all!!
Our season has begun here again for the Greenwood Gators Womens Hockey
team. We are just a group of women who are learning to play hockey and
we play a few exhibition games against a local university throughout the
winter. There is no league here (we are in the Annapolis Valley an hour-
and-a-half from Halifax), but we get on the ice twice a week with our coach
who runs great practices for all levels of players on the team. We really have
a ball - some women have never skated before and it is hiliarious! A little
frustrating for the better players but when the bodies are lying all over the ice
you can't help but giggle. Our arena here in Greenwood is still under
renovation so our practices have not begun officially, but we have rented ice
at another local arena for scrimmages to get back into the swing of things.
I have attended two of these so far and there were over twenty girls at each
one! And that does not account for all of the girls who have expressed an
interest in joining us this year!! Amazing!!! And to make things even more
exciting we have several new arrivals to the area who are amazing hockey
players. I'm agaw, I'm aghast. I'm not worthy. There was a woman at the
practice last night who was unbelievable. We couldn't believe our eyes.
During warm-up as we took shots on goal (the goalies last night were our
coach and assistant coach - both guys), it was the usual: soft shots that may
or may not hit the net when all of the sudden this woman wound up and let
go a slap-shot like the rest of us only dream about!!! She dinged the goalie
right in the chest and he just about fell backwards because he was not
expecting that. It was great. A small victory for us.
Deanna Manson
Greenwood, Nova Scotia, Canada
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:17:17 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The Value of Pelvic Protectors or Jills
Message-ID:
Debbie -
As a goalie, I've used the man's goalie cup for it's lower abdomen
protection..but that's always been protection because of the bruising..not
protection for any organs (which I also heard were protected by your muscle
wall and other tissues and were not "at risk").
Have not heard anything on "the history of..." would this be one for the
librarians at the Hockey Hall of Fame??
Lastly, Louisville, Vaughn, Reidel, Jones, and SCRO are all on Women's
Hockey's list of manufacturers who are doing "women's" gear. Let me do some
research and see if I can come up with names and numbers for you.
Sue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:27:36 -0500
From: email@hidden (Louise)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Referrees
Message-ID:
Jen from University of Illinois asked how to get respectful, competent
refereeing.
>From my experience (in Ontario, at Ohio State, and observing referees
elsewhere at away games and tournaments), and from my mother's 23 years of
hockey-organizing experience in Ontario, this is my advice.
For the longer term, it is important to begin encouraging your players to
become qualified referees. Refereeing women's games and girls' games is one
very good way for players to give back to the development of female hockey,
and it can be profitable as well. (This season, my mother is scheduling the
officiating for a 12 team league, entirely from qualified female officials.)
Your team or organization should schedule referees yourselves. Do*not* rely
on the local organizations that schedule referees for minor hockey,
intramurals, or other male hockey. It is essential for you to make direct
contact with the officials you consider hiring, to ask them what experience
they have with the female game (even if it's none, you have made the point
that it is a different game, and one that they need to learn), and to tell
them the rules by which you play. If a referee displays a disrespectful
attitude, you can let him/her know that it is unacceptable, and you have the
option of not hiring that official again. You should insist on professional
attire for your referees (eye-visor, no sweatpants, properly fitting
jersey), because a sloppily-dressed official also conveys the message that
he/she doesn't take this game seriously.
Teams which allow some "referees association" to do their scheduling are
unable to apply any of these sanctions, and are instead often forced to
accept officials who don't take the female game seriously or respect the
female athlete. Not only that, but you will probably be *paying* some
administrative fee to that old-boys-network referees association as well.
Can you tell that I think that would be a big mistake?
Perhaps this newsgroup could help to match up female referees looking for
work, with the people who schedule refs for female teams. Any "zebras" out
there?
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:01:34 -0800
From: Ingrid Moon
To: email@hidden
Subject: Men's vs. Women's Hockey
Message-ID:
jennifer diane carder wrote:
>
> We were just in Wisconsin,
> Madison and the Refs were laughing at us. They admitted that they "just
> didn't understand women's hockey". I think they thought we should be
> weaker and hit less. They also said it would just take time so they
> could get accustomed to us.
I have an extremely difficult time understanding how people CAN'T take
women's sports (in general) as seriously, but especially hockey. I
experienced a similar "cheauvanistic" problem with some refs at Disney
(or maybe it was just me--but it's not like I'm sensitive to it or
looking for it because _I_ generally don't think of it as being
different).
So let me ask all the women out there... Is women's hockey very
different from men's? The Louisville line of women's equipment ad that
I saw seemed to say (as I recall) 'for women's form and style of play',
and I thought it seemed weird. Of course, I have not played enough
women's hockey at competitive levels to notice--plus I am in California
where there is no checking (but plenty of rough-housing and "casual"
contact).
If anyone can describe the difference to me, I'll be thankful. If not,
or if there really is no difference, how do we express this to the men
of the world?
--Ingrid
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 362
*********************************