Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 376
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Am I over-reacting???
by Deanna Manson
2) Re: Am I over-reacting???
by Lea and Robert Sanford
3) Re: Am I over-reacting?
by Susan Gottfried
4) Re: Am I over-reacting?
by melissa
5) Re: fundraisers
by email@hidden
6) Re: Am I over-reacting???
by "Lyle R. Anderson"
7) Re: GOALIES??
by Jan de Regt
8) On The Edge
by email@hidden (Louise)
9) Re: Am I over-reacting???
by email@hidden (Sheryl-Lyn Ekberg)
10) Re: Am I over-reacting???
by Ingrid Moon
11) Re: Am I over-reacting???
by "Kristen M. Ede"
12) Re[2]: Am I over-reacting???
by Jan de Regt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:54:48 -0400
From: Deanna Manson
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: Am I over-reacting???
Message-ID:
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD00C.ED7874E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lucianne,
I don't like the sounds of that ad. The term hooters makes me think of that
stupid chain of restaurants in the US. I am sure whoever is responsible did
not mean to offend though.
Deanna Manson
Greenwood, Nova Scotia, Canada
email@hidden
------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD00C.ED7874E0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------ =_NextPart_000_01BBD00C.ED7874E0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:25:46 +0000
From: Lea and Robert Sanford
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting???
Message-ID:
Lucianne,
>
> Am I over-reacting? Thoughts, anyone?
>
I don't think that you are over-reacting. But, in accord with the
question of "Is this typical of the catalog?" I think it is. Boston
Hockey always has goofy quotes to go with their goods. Initially, I was
going to blast off a really flamming message to them, but in retrospect,
I will send a nicer note with a suggestion that their marketing
technique is not effective.
I asked my husband what he thought of the ad. He hid in the closet and
giggled hysterically for awhile before comming out and saying that he
was offended. Judging from his reaction, this sort of advertizing won't
go to far in promoting women's hockey as a serious sport.
So I will send a note, too. But one that can be read without welding
goggles.
Cheers from Houston,
Lea
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:01:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Susan Gottfried
To: email@hidden
Cc: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting?
Message-ID:
No, L, you're not overreacting.
Personally, I have breasts, not hooters, and so do the women I coach.
Feel free to write the catalog company and complain -- and then pass the
address on to the rest of us!
Sorry, gang. There's no excuse for that sort of thing.
Susan
Susan Helene Gottfried
Assistant Coach, Chatham College Club Hockey
Author of the Erroll Weiss Hockey novels (pub. pending)
and out in the 'burbs of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 08:41:40 -0700
From: melissa
To:
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting?
Message-ID:
Hi, everybody.
I'm going to be addressing this "hooters" thing in the No Go! section of
Go, girl! Magazine's December 2 issue. I'm going to include a
respectfully written letter to the catalog company that you can print out
and send to let them know that while we appreciate their women's
products, we don't appreciate their perpetuation of stereotypes. It's in
their best interest to promote women in hockey. I suspect that their
disrespect was more an act of mistaken humor than real malice.
Anyway, stop by the Dec. 2 issue of Go, girl!, print out the letter, and
send it -- if we speak up everytime we're offended, maybe others will
soon stop being so offensive.
All the best to you,
Melissa Joulwan
Editor, Go, girl! Magazine
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Melissa Joulwan
Step By Step Fitness/Go, girl! Magazine
415-332-4134
http://www.gogirlmag.com
Go,girl! is a bi-weekly magazine dedicated to getting women of all ages
and fitness levels involved in sports.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:53:26 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: fundraisers
Message-ID:
At 07:05 PM 10/16/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Here's an issue I haven't seen so far:
>
>I belong to an independent senior women's team in Ohio. While we have found
>that getting press is easy to come by (two newspaper articles, four t.v. news
>spots), we have found that it is very hard to get sponsors or donations.
>
>Does anyone know of any good fundraisers for women's hockey? We are open to
>just about anything, and have come up with: 1.) night at the races (there
>seems to be a lack of enthusiasm for this one), and 2.) A huge garage sale (a
>little late), and 3.) Road trip to Windsor to gamble.
>
>Has anyone had any luck with seeking donations? What approach would one use?
> Letters with pictures? Simple one-letter requests? I would appreciate ANY
>response. Since we are "adults" I am not sure that people see us an a
>worthwhile organization to contribute to.
>
>Thanks
>
>Lori Switaj
>
dear lori,
You may have heard about the new book on women's hockey called On the Edge,
Women Making Hockey History, ( I cowrote it) There are several leagues here
in Canada who are buying it from the publisher to use as a fundraiser.
Players are selling it to friends and also at their games. It also appears
to be used to attract sponsors, some managers are giving it to major
corporations so they will be more educated about the game. The publisher is
Second Story Press in Toronto but they have an American distributor. Their
telephone number is 416-537-7850.
Hope this helps.
Elizabeth Etue>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:57:02 -0900
From: "Lyle R. Anderson"
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting???
Message-ID:
Laurie Solgon wrote:
>
> "Protect your hooters from those sharp shooters."
> >
> >Am I over-reacting? Thoughts, anyone?
> >
> No, you're not overreacting. I am a member of the National Organization for
> Women, and it's comments like this that keep people from respecting women
> and taking them seriously. Please post a phone number or email address that
> we can complain to. I am very open minded and have a great sense of humor,
> but this is downright degrading and promotes disrespect and, believe it or
> not, hatred for women in some people.
>
> Laurie Solgon
Now, now... It seems likely that some rather immature person did a
little practicle joke. However. I have seen these comments directed at
male players enough to know that it was only a matter of time before one
would be directed at women.
Certainly, there is a tremendous amount of discrimination against women
in hockey. Lets spend our effort on real issues facing female players,
and ignore the children's comments!
------------------------------
Date: 12 Nov 1996 13:47:02 -0500
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re: GOALIES??
There is a subscription list for goalies - my 10 year old son is a
goalie, and my husband subscribes to that list. I don't have the
address with me here at work, but I can get it if you're interested.
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: GOALIES??
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 11/10/96 8:36 PM
Hi,
Just wondering if there are any other goalies out there in cyberspace
who would like to talk about, well, anything?? I read a lot of stuff
about equipment, playing time and strategies that are directly related
to the skaters on the ice!! If there is anyone interested in getting
a goalie chat going, please let me know!!
Thanks,
Avril #1
Assabet Valley Hockey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:58:28 -0500 (EST)
From: email@hidden (Louise)
To: email@hidden
Subject: On The Edge
Message-ID:
At 09:00 AM 11/12/96 -0800, email@hidden wrote:
>>Does anyone know of any good fundraisers for women's hockey?
>>Lori Switaj
>>
>dear lori,
>You may have heard about the new book on women's hockey called On the Edge,
>Women Making Hockey History, ( I cowrote it) There are several leagues here
>in Canada who are buying it from the publisher to use as a fundraiser.
>Players are selling it to friends and also at their games. It also appears
>to be used to attract sponsors, some managers are giving it to major
>corporations so they will be more educated about the game. The publisher is
>Second Story Press in Toronto but they have an American distributor. Their
>telephone number is 416-537-7850.
Has anyone else here read it yet? In my opinion, _On The Edge_ is an
exciting and enlightening book, partly because it takes an honest and
evenhanded look at some of the problems, issues, and controversies in
modern-day female hockey. It was such a relief to see mentioned in print
some of the things that I've noticed or wondered about. It was also full of
fascinating information (much that I hadn't read or heard anywhere else)
about the female hockey situation in different countries, and interesting
quotations from an assortment of hockey players, hockey organizers, and
sport sociologists.
I have seen the book in many independent bookstores and chain bookstores in
Ontario. One of the teams selling the book as a fundraiser is the Hamilton
Golden Hawks AAA team; it should be available at all their games.
Louise Mallory
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:57:34 -0600
From: email@hidden (Sheryl-Lyn Ekberg)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting???
Message-ID:
>Certainly, there is a tremendous amount of discrimination against women
>in hockey. Lets spend our effort on real issues facing female players,
>and ignore the children's comments!
Ignoring the issue does not solve the issue.
Sheryl (#13 TCE Minnesota)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:05:41 -0800
From: Ingrid Moon
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting???
Message-ID:
> > "Protect your hooters from those sharp shooters."
I've been trying to stay out of this one, but I just HAD to discuss it
with my boyfriend last night. "I can see where some people find it
offensive," he said. "But it seems in keeping with the humor of the
catalog" (which we receive regularly and which makes great bathroom
reading material). He also said, "Hooters is a restaurant. I don't see
women complaining about that. It's not like they said 'Protect your
tits from those hard hits'." For a comment like that I would have
burned the catalog and possibly their warehouse.
I happen to agree, though, that it is in keeping with the humor of the
company. Although I feel that *hooters* is in bad taste, I am not
convinced that this will contribute to the brainwashing of men that
women's hockey is not to be taken seriously. That kind of brainwashing
comes from culture, and we cannot expect to change a cultural problem
overnight. Although I experienced what I often felt was disrespect from
the male refs at one league in Southern California, I am very fortunate
to have a more progressive league to play in at Iceoplex, where they
encourage women to play and move up in level, and where they even tried
to form a women's league (but only three women showed up). I'm sure
that *hooters* comments are not causing the administrators, players and
refs to laugh at us.
On the other hand I don't think that it helps in places where men are
already laughing at us. So I'm going to write them a letter, too, and
ask them to please be a little more careful in word selection.
Protecting my SELF,
Ingrid
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:16:30 -0500
From: "Kristen M. Ede"
To:
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting???
Message-ID:
> Now, now... It seems likely that some rather immature person did a
> little practicle joke. However. I have seen these comments directed at
> male players enough to know that it was only a matter of time before one
> would be directed at women.
>
> Certainly, there is a tremendous amount of discrimination against women
> in hockey. Lets spend our effort on real issues facing female players,
> and ignore the children's comments!
To begin with, this IS a real issue facing female players and should NOT be
ignored. Do you really think its fair to say that these types of comments
are directed at men so it was only a matter of time? So that makes
it....alright???
Your understanding of the amount of discrimination we face should lead to
the understanding that we have to make an effort to 'enlighten' those who
are still in the dark ages.
These are not children Lyle, and certainly not 'an immature person' who
'did a practical joke'. These are established businesses, with
professional ADULTS that run them.
I like Melissa's idea of printing out her form letter in the No Go section
of Go Girl Magazine and sending it in to the Company. These issues do have
to be addressed.
Just my thought..(sorry but it hit a chord)
Kristen Ede
Thunder Bay Blades
------------------------------
Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:02:00 -0500
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: Am I over-reacting???
I have also tried to let this one blow by. I was very incensed by the
Miller Lite Girls in the Houston exhibition game, and wrote letters to
all the three businesses involved. That was truly a travisty.
This, however, is an entirely different situation. I think if a whole
bunch of us jump on Boston Hockey with both feet, screaming about the
need to take women's hockey seriously, we will defeat ourselves by our
own actions. No one takes actions like that seriously, it only serves
to completely alienate the business involved.
I urge everyone who is going to contact these people to go lightly.
We can't accomplish anything positive by yelling and screaming about
being serious athletes while acting like malevolent children.
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Am I over-reacting???
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 11/12/96 2:40 PM
> > "Protect your hooters from those sharp shooters."
I've been trying to stay out of this one, but I just HAD to discuss it
with my boyfriend last night. "I can see where some people find it
offensive," he said. "But it seems in keeping with the humor of the
catalog" (which we receive regularly and which makes great bathroom
reading material). He also said, "Hooters is a restaurant. I don't see
women complaining about that. It's not like they said 'Protect your
tits from those hard hits'." For a comment like that I would have
burned the catalog and possibly their warehouse.
I happen to agree, though, that it is in keeping with the humor of the
company. Although I feel that *hooters* is in bad taste, I am not
convinced that this will contribute to the brainwashing of men that
women's hockey is not to be taken seriously. That kind of brainwashing
comes from culture, and we cannot expect to change a cultural problem
overnight. Although I experienced what I often felt was disrespect from
the male refs at one league in Southern California, I am very fortunate
to have a more progressive league to play in at Iceoplex, where they
encourage women to play and move up in level, and where they even tried
to form a women's league (but only three women showed up). I'm sure
that *hooters* comments are not causing the administrators, players and
refs to laugh at us.
On the other hand I don't think that it helps in places where men are
already laughing at us. So I'm going to write them a letter, too, and
ask them to please be a little more careful in word selection.
Protecting my SELF,
Ingrid
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 376
*********************************