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From: "andrew schwartz" 
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
Subject: Re: roller/ice hockey transition
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:15:07 -0000
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I am a former College Roller hockey player and former women's collegiate ice 
hockey coach. I have a bit of experience in the feild and think I can help 
answer some questions about the transition from roller to ice. I can tell 
you that the first time you step on the ice, you are going to have the 
sensation that you are falling forwards.  This is because with inline skates 
the front wheel extends approx. 3/4 of an inch in front of the toe of your 
boot.  This allows a skater the ability to lean forward and be supported by 
the wheel.  On an Ice hockey skate, the first portion of the blade that 
touches the ice, is under the ball of your foot.  Therefore, there is less 
of an ability to lean forward and have the blade support you.
The best thing you can do to counter-act this lack of support, is to sit 
further back in your stride.  In other words, crouch further down (sticking 
your rear end further back) and shift your center of gravity more towards 
the center of the blade.
In addition, on an inline skate, you only have one edge to maneuver with.  
This limits your ability to make the very sharp turns like those availible 
to ice hockey players.  Therefore you will need to adjust to having two 
surfaces to skate on(inside and outside edges).
DO NOT be fooled!!  Ice hockey and Roller hockey are two different sports!!! 
The transition is easy but will take a few sessions to get the hang of.
Good Luck,
Andrew Schwartz
National Hockey League
_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Amy Vorpagel" 
To: , 
References: 
Subject: Re: roller/ice hockey transition
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:59:49 -0500
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Hey folks,

I played inline hockey for about a year in parking lots and a year on a
league and
just switched to ice in October. I was surprised at how different it was.

I hadn't ice skated since I was about 5 years old (I'm 25 now), so it felt
like I had
never been. But... I am SO glad that I tried out ice because it is a LOT of
fun.
Things that are harder: everything moves quicker, getting up if you've
fallen and
you are sliding, remembering to stay onsides, stopping is pretty different,
but you'll
get used to it pretty quick, I think.
It may feel a little weird at first. Make sure you get a couple of practices
in before
you try to play a game. Practice getting up after you've fallen down.
Practice
starting and stopping. Try going to an open skate somewhere just to get a
feel for it.
Equipmentwise, everything was pretty much the same, I just added two pieces
of
equipment: a neck guard and a mouth guard.

I think you'll enjoy ice hockey. I am having a blast, and I'm glad I tried
it out. I
was a little reluctant to try it, but I am so glad I did. It's very similar,
and having
experience with inline will help, but there is no substitute for actually
practicing and
playing on ice. Have fun and be safe!

Amy

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From: "Sue Rodgers" 
To: email@hidden
Subject: high school hockey
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:24:22 -0400
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I think that the coach is taking a good approach to it.  For her first year 
on the team, realistically that is how much she might expect to play.  I 
agree too that she may need the year to see what to expect from the games at 
that level.  Practices are so important in development.
I mostly want to say how impressed I am with her attitude.  Nobody likes 
sitting, but it sounds like she is really focused on the positive side of 
the experience!

Sue Rodgers
_________________________________________________________________________
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Reply-To: 
From: "Shari Lichterman" 
To: 
Subject: daughter on varsity team
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:07:43 -0600
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Debbie,

As long as your daughter does still get to play on the freshman team, she's
getting a great opportunity to practice and sit in on varsity games.  The
coach obviously sees her potential, since she's one of the few players being
asked to roster up.  My husband is a Junior A coach and has coached a lot of
high school, and what Ron and some of the others have replied are the same
things he said when I read him your email.  It can only help her.  But if
she is serious about the sport and really wants to move into the more
competitive levels, sitting out is something that's going to happen at
times.  I don't think this is a female-male issue, at the varsity level and
up, coaches just have to make the tough decisions - they have to coach to
win.  But he's preparing for the future by having her and other freshmen at
practices and on the bench.

Sounds like your daughter has a good attitude about it, I hope some of these
emails will make you understand what's happening a little better.  Good luck
to both of you.

Shari Lichterman
Fox Valley Falcons Women's Hockey
www.mindspring.com/~foxvalleyfalcons

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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:03:32 -0500
From: "Edward S.Collins" 
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Subject: Re: women-in-hockey digest, Vol 1 #128 - 12 msgs
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I 'm looking for information on the best training and development for young female
hockey players and how long should they play with the boys . And if it is in the
best  interest of 7&9 year olds girls to play with to play with 11& 12 year old
girls.

email@hidden wrote:

> Send women-in-hockey mailing list submissions to
>         email@hidden
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         email@hidden
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         email@hidden
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of women-in-hockey digest..."
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Real Time chats @ HockeyFanz (asking your opinion) (Chuq Von Rospach)
>    2. Happy Holidays ! (Gen)
>    3. highschool hockey (Debbie Minden)
>    4. Re: highschool hockey (Louise)
>    5. Re: highschool hockey (Ron Goldey)
>    6. Re: highschool hockey (ellice)
>    7. roller/ice hockey transition (email@hidden)
>    8. Re: roller/ice hockey transition (email@hidden)
>    9. Re: highschool hockey (email@hidden)
>   10. Summer hockey camps (Cathi Thomas)
>   11. Re: Summer hockey camps (Laurie Solgon)
>   12. admin: changes to HockeyFanz.com rules/terms of service. (Chuq Von Rospach)
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Real Time chats @ HockeyFanz (asking your opinion)
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:29:52 -0800
> From: Chuq Von Rospach 
> To: email@hidden
>
> Hey, folks, List Mom here. I'd like your advice on something.
>
> One of the things I wanted when I built hockeyfanz.com was real time
> capabilities. It didn't make opening night, but I've been working on
> it as I've had time since.
>
> The more I work on it, though, the less sure I am on what I'm doing
> is the best way to do this. When you're not sure what you're doing is
> right -- it's best to ask the experts. That's you.
>
> What I've been planning to do is set up an IRC server on
> hockeyfanz.com that we can all use for real-time get togethers. There
> are a number of advantages to this, starting with being able to
> control who has access and avoiding the trolls, and being able to set
> up whatever structure we want within the IRC.
>
> But there are some weaknesses, too. The key one to me is that the
> connection to the local IRC server is only as good as the network
> between my site and yours. For a number of users, especially our
> users not in North America, this could lead to real performance
> issues. I also know from talking to some of you that there are
> already a number of people who have regular, or semi-regular,
> get-togethers on various networks already, and I'm wondering if it
> makes more sense to work with these existing setups instead of
> building a new one and trying to get everyone to use it. The
> downside, of course, would be that we lose some control of our
> destiny, so to speak, since we'd be using other services.
>
> I'm not sure which is best for all of us, although to be honest, I'm
> now leaning towards using the existing IRC and IM systems instead of
> building standalone versions.  But I dunno.
>
> So I want to know what YOU think the best way to handle real-time
> systems with HockeyFanz. Let me know what you think -- do you prefer:
>
> 1) building a stand-alone IRC server on Hockeyfanz, for Hockeyfanz
> users. The advantage: it'll be small, low-volume, and less likely to
> have trolls wandering through, since it'll only be known to
> HockeyFanz users. This, hwoever, requires laurie and I to build all
> of the stuff, manage it, and it's dependent on how much capacity we
> have and how well connected you are to our site for performance
> purposes.
>
> 2) build a place on HockeyFanz where we can keep a calendar of
> real-time events, and how to access them. A number of the lists
> already have groups that get together, and we can advertise those
> meetings and help interested groups organize new ones, plus if there
> are special one-time events, get them advertised as well. The
> advantage: it's a LOT easier to build for us, a lot less maintenance,
> and existing groups don't have to move or change things. The downside
> seems to be that we don't control the systems, so we won't be able to
> do it the way we want, plus being part of the larger IRC universe
> makes us open to some of the abuses that happen there.
>
> 3) You don't care about real time stuff and don't plan on using it anyway.
>
> 4) have another idea? I'd love to hear it.
>
> I admit to being a "build it yourself" person, but the more I get
> involved in this stuff, the more I begin to think that (2) is the
> better option. I really don't know, though. I've been experimenting
> mostly with Undernet, and have started exploring AIM for instance
> messaging (that's a whole different discussion -- AIM or ICQ?). If we
> decided to go with (2), I'll probably host the meetings I do on
> undernet, but any real time group on any service will be welcome to
> advertise their existance (as to IM, I have no clue what I'd
> recommend at the HockeyFanz standard yet...) -- I originally looked
> at running my own fantasy league stuff, too, but decided it was more
> work to do than we had time to get it ready in -- and in fact, I'm
> pretty happy with smallworld.com for fantasy league stuff, so I
> expect we'll continue to recommend people set up their leagues there
> or on Yahoo.
>
> Anyway, if you have an opinion on this, let me know. Please don't
> post it to the list, either email me directly, or post your feedback
> in the forums. I've started a topic for this in the forums at
>  for that
> purpose. let's keep the lists focussed on topic, and try to keep the
> discussion in one place.
>
> thanks for your help...
>
> chuq
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
> Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
>
> We're visiting the relatives. Cover us.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Happy Holidays !
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:00:44 -0500
> From: "Gen" 
> To: 
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to wish all of you a very happy Christmas and wonderful New
> Year. Don't forget to thank for our blessings. Being able to get involved in
> hockey is a very good thing. I am still saving up to play. Let's all relax
> with our families for this season of miracles and make each moment count.
>
> Gen
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: highschool hockey
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:22:26 -0500
> From: Debbie Minden 
> To: email@hidden
>
> We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
> confused (ticked off, annoyed?).  My daughter is the only girl.  She
> is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain.  The varsity
> coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
> freshman.  He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team.  After
> all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
> 2, and sat for the rest - not in that order.  The guy has 3
> defensemen  who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period.  All
> the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
> exception of the captain.
>
> Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time?  She could be home
> doing homework.  She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
> and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
> of competition in her girls team.  She figures next year after the 6
> seniors graduate, her day will come.
>
> This is such a different experience from club hockey.  Any thoughts?
>
> Debbie
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: highschool hockey
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:39:27 -0500
> From: Louise 
> To: email@hidden
>
> At 04:22 PM 19/12/2000 -0500, Debbie Minden wrote:
> >We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
> >confused (ticked off, annoyed?).  My daughter is the only girl.  She
> >is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain.  The varsity
> >coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
> >freshman.  He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team.  After
> >all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
> >2, and sat for the rest - not in that order.  The guy has 3
> >defensemen  who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period.  All
> >the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
> >exception of the captain.
> >
> >Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time?  She could be home
> >doing homework.  She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
> >and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
> >of competition in her girls team.  She figures next year after the 6
> >seniors graduate, her day will come.
> >
> >This is such a different experience from club hockey.  Any thoughts?
>
> Is the coach a teacher at her school, or a member of the community?  Has he
> coached this team in previous years?  Does he already have positive
> experience with girls playing contact hockey on boys' teams?  (Is it
> possible that he is being overly cautious or protective of your daughter?)
>
> It's too late to say this now, but it's a lot easier for a player (or
> parent) to inquire tactfully about expectations and commitments before
> joining a team, than halfway through the season.  ("Do you give equal ice
> time?  If not, what is your idea of fair ice time?  What can I expect from
> you?  What do you expect of me?" ... )
>
> Playing three defence when you've got others on the bench sounds like a
> short-sighted strategy to me.  Is your daughter the only one who's not
> getting played?  It's also not clear to me whether she's missing out on
> some other games she could be playing in by sitting on the bench for this
> team.
>
> Louise
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: highschool hockey
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:45:58 -0500
> From: "Ron Goldey" 
> To: 
> References: 
>
> Debbie,
>
> I'm a bit confused by your email. Now that she's being rostered on the
> varsity team, is she still able to play on the freshman team? If so, is she
> getting full shifts in the freshman games? Or am I misunderstanding you, and
> is she only getting a few shifts in the freshman games and none in the
> varsity games?
>
> If she's getting full shifts in the freshman games and a few shifts in the
> varsity games, I'd say she's doing better than the average bear. She'll see
> a faster, tougher level of play any time she gets a chance to play varsity,
> and it will prepare her for next year, when those 6 seniors are gone.
> Unless, of course, school work is suffering.You mentioned homework. If she's
> not keeping up with school, it's a no-brainer.
>
> Please tell her good luck, and keep her head up.
>
> Ron Goldey
> Healthcare I.T., Inc.
> (800)616-2104 (v)
> (513)523-5600 (f)
> email@hidden
> www.healthcareit.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Debbie Minden" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:22 PM
> Subject: highschool hockey
>
> We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
> confused (ticked off, annoyed?).  My daughter is the only girl.  She
> is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain.  The varsity
> coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
> freshman.  He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team.  After
> all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
> 2, and sat for the rest - not in that order.  The guy has 3
> defensemen  who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period.  All
> the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
> exception of the captain.
>
> Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time?  She could be home
> doing homework.  She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
> and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
> of competition in her girls team.  She figures next year after the 6
> seniors graduate, her day will come.
>
> This is such a different experience from club hockey.  Any thoughts?
>
> Debbie
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: highschool hockey
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 00 16:53:29 -0500
> From: ellice 
> To: "Debbie Minden" ,
>      
>
> Debbie & crew,
>
> Welcome to the brave new world. In a word, YES - in my experience as a
> ref, and high school (boys) coach - it is different.
>
> Many clubs may still be doing the close to equal ice time, working on
> player development, everyone is paying to play, etc. But, when you play
> for your school, it is a greater emphasis on the "school" name, honor,
> etc coming first - translate that into "winning" . Which means that the
> strongest play the most, the weaker players play less.
>
> Most school leagues have a rule about how many players can be rostered
> both ways. Here, it's something like only the 4 lowest varsity players
> can be rostered to play with the JV. So, it's an honor or shows the coach
> thinks well of your daughter by having her as the alternate captain, and
> rostering her with the varsity. And she is getting more out of those
> practices than you might believe - it will have her learning the more
> complicated play that the varsity usually follows, and help her skills.
> But, that doesn't mean she's completely ready for high school varsity -
> on the ice with some 17 yr old, >6' , hormone pumped guys.
>
> I coached the JV at a local private/prep (boys school) and assisted with
> the Varsity. I had players that were thrilled to be allowed to actually
> dress with the Varsity. And getting one or two shifts was great. They
> wanted to be part of the team - of course, there are those who thought
> they were "better" - self perception is tough. But, the head coach, who
> is a great guy, and does the USAH select-16 now (had the champion select
> 14s for a while) - would put one of those hard working, maybe not as
> skilled, but willing to give it all - JV players out, and use them to
> teach a lesson to some lagging Varsity players.
>
> Also, the high school games can be pretty rock & roll. Despite unwritten
> rules about not checking the girls, and retaliation, etc - perhaps the
> coach wants your daughter to see & learn what's going on at that level,
> and be really prepared for playing with the even bigger boys. Rather than
> rushing her into a situation where she might get hurt, or abused.A
> freshmen skating with the varsity is a big step, and I'd imagine she,
> more than her parent, may be understanding the situation of being a 4th
> liner. Heck, the pros have guys that barely get ice time - but they're
> happy when they get it. Look at the positive - her times will come. It's
> always interesting when we're reffin' and watching the couple of girls on
> some high school teams - sometimes they're great, and sometimes, not.
> But, they do have to use a higher skill level.
>
> On a different but related note - my beloved partner in crime on & off
> ice reffed a girls U-19 AA (all girls are Tier I) game - they played a
> boys Midget A (Tier II) team, and it was a great game - great skating,
> skills, wide open, 1 goal game. The girls lost, but they were definitely
> in the game the entire time, and it could've gone either way. Of course,
> it was non-check (USAH dictates you play non-check when either team is
> from a non-check league).
>
> good luck, don't get too frustrated, sorry about the $.25 worth.
> ellice
>
> -------------Original message-------------------------
> Received:    12/19/00 4:32 PM
> From:        Debbie Minden, email@hidden
> >We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
> >confused (ticked off, annoyed?).  My daughter is the only girl.  She
> >is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain.  The varsity
> >coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
> >freshman.  He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team.  After
> >all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
> >2, and sat for the rest - not in that order.  The guy has 3
> >defensemen  who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period.  All
> >the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
> >exception of the captain.
> >
> >Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time?  She could be home
> >doing homework.  She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
> >and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
> >of competition in her girls team.  She figures next year after the 6
> >seniors graduate, her day will come.
> >
> >This is such a different experience from club hockey.  Any thoughts?
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: roller/ice hockey transition
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:05:28 EST
> From: email@hidden
> To: email@hidden
>
> Hey.. I have a question for any of the women who have moved from roller
> hockey to ice hockey..
>    I'm 16 and I play roller hockey right now and in january i'll be joining a
> womens ice hockey club..  I have very good balance and coordination on inline
> skates, but I've never ICE skated a day in my life. I'd like to know, is the
> transition from roller to ice an easy one?     if anyone has any pointers or
> advice (on equipment, skating or anything to a new ice hockey player) it
> would be greatly appreciated!!
>       Thanks gals,
>           Jess
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: roller/ice hockey transition
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:48:51 EST
> From: email@hidden
> To: email@hidden
>
> I played roller hockey for about 3 years. When I went to play ice hockey for
> the first time, it was only my second time on the ice. I don't think it was a
> hard transition to make. It doesn't take as much effort to skate, and the
> puck moves a whole lot easier (well, unless the zamboni guy leaves to much
> water on the rink). The main problem for me was stopping, and after two
> years, I'm just now starting to get it down.
>
> I would say the transition from ice to roller is a lot harder. I did
> intermural roller hockey this fall, and about killed myself trying to stop
> and do direction changes and all that. Which brings me to one last thing
> about ice hockey...it doesn't hurt as much when you fall.
>
> Jennie
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: highschool hockey
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:26:01 EST
> From: email@hidden
> To: email@hidden, email@hidden
>
> My boyfriend is a coach of a high school team in a high division in our
> state. He often suits kids up and they only get to play one or two shifts a
> game. The reason a coach brings players up, especially freshman, is to let
> them experience and see the varsity in action. It is important for them to
> hear what is going on on the bench and learn the systems that they will be
> playing in the future. It may seem like a waste of time to you, but it is
> important if she is going to play varsity in the future. Tell while she is on
> the bench to be an active participant by listening to what the coach is
> telling the other players, and to learn the mental part of the game. This way
> when she gets out on the ice she can put into action what the coach wants.
>
> Deb
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Summer hockey camps
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:46:11 -0800
> From: "Cathi Thomas" 
> To: 
>
> Could you recommend a good summer camp for a friend with a 13 year old
> daughter?  We live in New England, but not afraid of traveling if need be.
> Thanking you all in advance,
> Cathi
> www.chickwear.com
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Summer hockey camps
> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:20:14 -0700
> From: Laurie Solgon 
> To: "Cathi Thomas" ,
>      
>
> The University of New Hampshire has a good one in late July / early
> August.  She can go for one or two weeks.  My daughter has gone for the
> last three years and I send her all the way from Arizona.
>
> Laurie Solgon
>
> At 10:46 PM 12/19/00 -0800, Cathi Thomas wrote:
> >Could you recommend a good summer camp for a friend with a 13 year old
> >daughter?  We live in New England, but not afraid of traveling if need be.
> >Thanking you all in advance,
> >Cathi
> >www.chickwear.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >women-in-hockey mailing list
> >email@hidden
> >http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: admin: changes to HockeyFanz.com rules/terms of service.
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:00:46 -0800
> From: Chuq Von Rospach 
> To: email@hidden
>
> Folks:
>
> We want to notify you that we've made a couple of changes to the
> terms of service and rules that we manage our site and lists by. The
> full set of rules are available at
> . We ask all users
> to abide by these rules when they choose to use our systems.
>
> We have made two changes to the terms of service. The text of these
> changes are:
>
> o We ask all of our users to cooperate in staying on topic on the
> mailing lists. Before we had the discussion forums, we tended to let
> the lists wander off topic, even though it upset a number of our
> users, because we really didn't have any alternative. Now, with the
> forums, we do -- we ask that users who want to start an off-topic
> discussion on a list do so by creating the discussion in the forums
> and posting the URL to access the discussion into the list. That will
> allow those that are interested in the discussion to join in, while
> keeping the list itself on topic and focussed for those users who
> find the chatter distracting.
>
> o We are now requiring that all posting involving any kind of
> financial transaction be done ONLY on the discussion forums. This
> includes all ticket requests or offers, cards, pucks, sticks,
> jerseys, memorabilia or any other item for sale or trade, or anything
> else that might be considered a classified ad. This is not optional
> -- users who post these items to the lists may have their posting
> privilege reduced or revoked.
>
> -----
>
> Here is why we're making these changes:
>
> The first change is to put in writing our request for your help in
> keeping the mailing lists focussed. Before we added the discussion
> forums, we really didn't have an alternative for the kind of
> discussion that a group of people generates around the topic that
> brought them together. Managing a mailing list is a constant struggle
> to find a compromise between the list users who enjoy wide-ranging
> discussions and those that are interested in a less-busy, more
> focussed list. Now that we've had a chance to test out the forums and
> make sure they're operating properly, we have a place for those
> side-discussions, and I'm asking people to please help us focus the
> lists on the primary topic, and to use the forums for the more
> wide-ranging talk that goes on. We realize that these side
> discussions is one of the things that brings a flavor or personality
> to the lists and we don't want to screw that up, so we want to be as
> flexible as possible in managing this and leave it up to the users as
> much as possible -- so instead of setting up hard walls over "this is
> good" and "this is bad", we're asking users to self-police
> themselves. We'll monitor this over the next few months and see how
> it work -- one thing we do NOT want is lists turning into "get this
> off the list" fights. Remember that the "don't play list mom" rule is
> still very much in effect, and if you feel something isn't
> appropriate for a list, ask the admins to deal with it. Don't try to
> 'fix' the problem yourself, or you run the risk of getting into worse
> trouble...
>
> The second change is somewhat related to the first -- we're taking
> one aspect of the content that has traditionally been controversial
> and moving it to the discussion forums. Unlike the off-topic talk,
> however, this is a MANDATORY restriction. This restriction brings all
> of the lists in line with the policy we've used since we closed the
> sharks-tickets list, so now everyone is on the same set of rules
> again. The reason we're making this mandatory is not just to get this
> content off of the mailing lists, but to help us better manage the
> content and limit our legal liability as the place where these
> transactions are taking place. Over the last couple of years, we've
> had a growing number of problems related to the sale or trade of
> tickets over our lists, and a couple of those issues got very
> serious. I wish it didn't have to be said, but while Laurie and I
> enjoy doing this for all of you, that enjoyment ends when lawyers
> enter the scene, and we have no interest in being involved in legal
> problems involving this site.
>
> There haven't been many problems in the past, but there have been
> enough that I felt we had to make some changes to better allow us to
> track and administer this stuff, and to make our rules both explicit
> and impossible to conveniently miss (we get really tired of people
> who tell us they didn't read the rules, so they didn't know something
> was against the rules, or that they didn't CARE if it was against the
> rules -- so we're setting this up so that you basically CAN'T miss
> the rules, because the few turkeys and greedy twits have forced us to)
>
> I know from shutting down the sharks-tickets list that these changes
> are not likely to be wildly popular. Given that the existing setup
> put us in a legal situation I was no longer willing to accept, it
> came down to banning this material completely (which I didn't want to
> do), or finding a compromise setup that allowed us to continue to do
> this for the users who want it, while limiting our liability against
> future problems.
>
> Users who violate this policy will find their site posting
> priviledges reduced or revoked. I try to not draw many hard lines in
> the sand, but this one, unfortunately, is one of them. I'm sorry to
> have to do this, but the day we get sued is the day HockeyFanz gets
> shut down forever, and frankly, I'd rather not do that (and one hopes
> you don't want me to, either). Unfortunately, I no longer feel I can
> support the status quo, either.
>
> If you want to discuss these changes, I'm open to your feedback and
> suggestions.
> Feel free to drop me a note by e-mail, or start a topic in the
> forums. I ask that we try to keep arguing about this off the lists,
> to try to keep them focussed on why they exist and not bog them down
> in meta-discussions about the lists themselves.
>
> Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.
>
> chuq
> HockeyFanz.com
>
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
> Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
>
> We're visiting the relatives. Cover us.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> women-in-hockey mailing list
> email@hidden
> http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey

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From: email@hidden
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:18:21 EST
Subject: girls playing with older girls
To: email@hidden
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Hi - I definitely think that there is a huge advantage for young girls to 
play on a team with older girls as long as they have a chance to actually 
play and participate.  My daughter plays on an all girls travel tier I 15 and 
under team.  The age range is 9 - 15.  My daughter is 14 and this is her 
third year.  The younger girls on our team learn a great deal from the older 
ones.  They also get a chance to play against older girls and yet when they 
are skating, they are somewhat protected by the older girls on our team.  
They work hard to be able to skate like the older ones and they look up to 
them.  In addition to the hockey benefits, there are also enormous social 
benefits as well.  Now that my daughter is 14, she sees that she needs to be 
one of the leaders.  My daughter also plays on a boys freshman high school 
team in the spring, but she much prefers her travel team experience.   

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From: email@hidden
Message-ID: 
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:29:55 EST
Subject: roller - ice transition
To: email@hidden
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Inspired by the helpful tips on transitioning from roler hockey to ice 
hockey, I would like to ask if anyone has suggestions about the opposite 
process - starting roller hockey after one has played ice hockey for some 
time.
thanks,
Lisa

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From: "Fox Valley Falcons" 
To: 
Subject: ELITE FEMALE 'AAA' INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENT
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:15:23 -0600
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I received this from another newsgroup, I don't think it has appeared on
this list, if it has, I apologize.  Please reply to the original sender with
questions, I don't have anything to do with it.
Shari

-----Original Message-----
From: Featherstone, Neil [mailto:email@hidden]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 1:16 PM
To: 'email@hidden'
Subject:

SOUTHERN ALBERTA SELECTS Female Division
ELITE FEMALE 'AAA' INTERNATIONAL TOURNAMENT 17th to 21st May, 2001
Now expanded Division for U15 / Peewee Teams

The Southern Alberta Select Female Division are to hold a 'AAA' level
International tournament. Due to the many enquiries from U15 / Peewee Elite
teams in North America we now intend to include a division for this age
level. If you would like an Invite please contact me so I can arrange.

Calgary is the home of Team Canada and also the Olympic Oval Female
high performance program based in the city.

We curently have Select U19 teams being formed in Switzerland, Sweden and
the UK. We are also actively in discussion with Select teams from Germany,
Austria and Japan. We therefore anticipate the tournament will be of a
extremely high caliber and is sure to attract significant attention.
I would be grateful if you are not interested, if you would forward this
onto to any suitable Female Team that would be interested in forming and
entering a Select team. I am able to discuss age Limitations if required.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact
me.
l look forward to opening discussions. Places are now limited so please
reply early.

work- email@hidden
home- email@hidden
Tel Number + 403-213-2080
Kindest Regards,
Neil Featherstone
SASHA Team Manager
Tournament Organizer