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Women-in-Hockey Digest Wednesday, April 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 407
In this issue:
Brampton
Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
RE: Brampton and Empire Teams/Canadian Vs American teams
Re: Brampton and Empire Teams/Canadian Vs American teams
Re: WIH - Lots of Michigan Hockey Info!
Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
Re:Brampton and Empire Teams
WIH - roller hockey skates and "rockering"
Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
Re: Brampton
Re: Brampton
Re: Brampton
Re: Brampton
Re: Brampton
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Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 07:12:08 -0400
From: K Braun
Subject: Brampton
Just a few quick impressions:
- -the Brampton Centre is quite a complex, and to think another facility
that wasn't used,the Hershey Centre, is only 5 minutes away. With the
wealth of ice in the area will we see 500 teams in the future? (380 I
believe this year)
- -in our 6 years attending the quality of play across all levels has
noticeably improved. I get the impression that there is more
athleticism, more teams seem to be training not just playing.
- -the international level of play is also improving, the English team
from Bracknell won their pool games in Senior C by shutouts, time these
teams moved up.
- -With the revenue generated the tournament could become affiliated and
supportive of a charitable cause relating to females.
- -More seminars could be held. Two this year, not too publicized, one on
US/Canadian Universities and one on athletic training/nutrition.
- -a Michigan Capitals team, about peewee age, sang a beautiful rendition
of Amazing Grace in our hotel lobby on sunday morning, Thanks.
Any other impressions?
Kurt
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Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:09:48 -0400
From: George Boccanfuso
Subject: Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
Hey All
Did anybody else get smoked by the teams from New York Empire. Who
classifies those teams. How can a team be at B level with players
receiving scholarships? One parent from Empire lamented that they came
years ago and got beaten so the solution is to make an all star team and
under classify yourself for pay back. Thank you Yankees. So years ago
they over classified themselves and now they under classify themselves.
Why aren't the americans put in their own pool unless they demonstrate
that they have played competitively against other canadian teams; like
the michigan teams, near detroit, do.
- --
*********************************************************************
George Boccanfuso
If we learn from our mistakes.
So the more mistakes we make the more we learn?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:36:28 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
In a message dated 99-04-07 11:08:15 EDT, email@hidden writes:
<< Why aren't the americans put in their own pool unless they demonstrate
that they have played competitively against other canadian teams; like
the michigan teams, near detroit, do.
>>
What kind of comment is that? Are you saying that Americans are not as good
as Canadians? (or did you forget who has the Olympic Gold?)
Making generalizations like "Americans should play in their own pool" is
absolutely unfounded. Perhaps there should be a better, more objective way
of classifying teams, but national origin is not one of them.
I honestly do not think that teams go in there and delibrately underclassify
themselves just so that they could win the division. That is not the point
of this tournament. (At least not as I see it.) I think we would be hard
pressed to find a player who wants to go in to this tournament and just roll
over their opponents without a fight.
Last year, we beat 2 Canadian teams. This year, we lost to a British team.
(Bracknell.) If I hadn't told my teamamtes that I played hockey while I
was in London this past fall, few would have ever even believed that there
were any teams in Britain! What does this mean? Never underestimate your
opponent (especially based on where they are from!)
This year, our B team lost all 3 of our games. 2 of them by a pretty large
margin. Were we in the wrong division? Perhaps. But, regardless of the
score, we played our best hockey of the year. There were no boneheaded
mistakes. Nobody on my team is complaining that we were outclassed. We
skated our butts off, and had a lot of fun.
What is my point? To go out there and give it your best shot. Have fun.
Even if you don't win the game, as long as you can honestly say that you gave
it everythign you had, you still walk away a winner. I would rather go
home with that feeling than the feeling of knowing that we only won it
because we were in too low a division.
Jill
# 77 Brooklyn Blades
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:55:47 -0400
From: "Angela Koos (NTT)"
Subject: RE: Brampton and Empire Teams/Canadian Vs American teams
***Why aren't the americans put in their own pool unless they demonstrate
that they have played competitively against other canadian teams; like
the michigan teams, near detroit, do.
My team (from Detroit) just played in a tournament last week in Toronto
against all Canadian teams -- and we won our division. We have never played
against any Canadian team before because we are mostly novice players and we
play other novice teams in the Detroit area.
The tournament we played in this weekend was VERY fair. All of the teams we
played against were the same level as us.
Game 1: Team X-Treme vs Toronto Blizzard -- Won 1-0
Game 2: Team X-Treme vs Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College -- L 4-2
That put us in 2nd place, Game 3 was 2nd place vs 3rd place.
Game 3: Team X-Treme vs Forest Hill Mid-Ice Crisis -- W 3-1
Wow!! That meant we were going to the finals!!!! We played SIX periods in
the finals because at the end of the 3rd period it was still tied 0-0. We
played 3 OT periods and finally scored with 8 seconds left in the third OT.
Finals: Team X-Treme vs North York Flyers -- W 1-0
Angela #1
Team Michigan Team X-Treme
http://members.xoom.com/GoalieGirl01
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:27:45 -0700
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: Re: Brampton and Empire Teams/Canadian Vs American teams
We also played in that Toronto tournament in a different level.
We thought it was fair.
We are from California.
We played:
Durham West (Canadian) v.s. Cal. Polar Cats
Cats won 2-0
- ---------------------------------
Sault Ice Katz (Canadian) v.s. Cal. Polar Cats
Cats won 3-2
- ---------------------------------
Fenelon Falls IGA Hawks (Canadian) v.s. Cal Polar Cats
Hawsks won 4-1
- ---------------------------------
Semi-finals
Tragically Hick (Canadian) v.s. Cal. Polar Cats
Hick won 3-1
Tragicvally Hick won the division.
- ------------------------------------
- --
Megan Bryant
Rhythm & Hues Go Polar Cats!
310 448 7551
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:51:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: WIH - Lots of Michigan Hockey Info!
Just wondering if anyone is going to the Drop in game at farmington tomorrow night. I think i'm going to be there and just wondered if i'd be able to meet anyone =)
Laters -- J
> > Farmington Ice Arena...
> > ...is going to have women's drop-in hockey every Thursday at 9.30PM
> > starting on April 8th. The cost is $10 per player, goalies are either
> > free or $5 I can't remember which. Please come early. limited to 20
> > players!
> >
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:23:45 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
In a message dated 4/7/99 5:15:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
<< Well Jill
Tell me what you think of a 9-0 and 7-1 drubbing my daughters had to
endure. Tell me the Empire teams weren't here to run the score. All they
needed was 1 goal in each period to get their 5 points; but no they kept
putting it to us. I ran into one of the Empire players and I overheard
her say she should have had a couple of more goals. For Gods sakes they
already had 9; how many more did they want?
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
- --
*********************************************************************
George Boccanfuso >>
Well, that sounds pretty close to the scores of 2 our games. So, I know the
feeling. Sure, it does suck to lose. It especially sucks to lose big. It
sucks even more when the winners rub it in your face.
9-0 is pretty bad. But why should the other players put on the brakes? Are
you saying that after they are up only 1 goal, they should coast the rest of
the way? After all, each period is like a separate game. So, I do not
think and average of 3-0 in each period is anything worth whining about.
So, the other team got more goals. Big deal. Did your daughetrs teams play
to the best of their ability? Was each and every member of their team
gasping for air after their shift becuase they skated as hard as they could?
Are they saying "could, shoulda, woulda?" or did give it their best shot?
Out of curiosity, how old are your daughters? Perhaps they are still young
and need to learn that sports are more than about who wins and who loses.
It is about the competition itself. It is about challenging yourself to do
what you never thought possible. It is about teamwork, having fun, and
making friends.
If you win, win with grace. If you lose, lose, lose with dignity. These are
important lessons. As I said previously, we lost big. But we gave it
everything we had. In the end, there was not one player on my team who did
not walk away from those games with a smile on their face, and a feeling of
accomplishment. As a team, we played better than we played all season.
When the game is over, line up, take off your gloves, shake hands, and smile
as if you mean it. The game is over.
Here's food for thought - If your daughters team lost that badly to 2
different teams, perhaps THEY are in the wrong division.
Jill
# 77 Broolyn Blades
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:05:19 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re:Brampton and Empire Teams
I've rarely spoken on list list, but being pummelled by a better team is
something that you have to learn to live with. My roller hockey team has had
the great misfortune of playing the National Champs for 2 years in an annual
tournament in our area. We were mercied both times, but I look at it as an
experience. Playing better teams will only make you better, unless you give
up. I will side with you on the fact that it sounded like they were being
rather unsportsman-like about it, that's something no one likes to see.
Jill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:14:02 -0700
From: "Tammie K. Weigl"
Subject: WIH - roller hockey skates and "rockering"
Anyone have some good basic advice on the proper way to
"rocker" the wheels on roller hockey skates?
Thanks,
Tammie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:23:04 -0700
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: Re: Brampton and Empire Teams
>>All they needed was 1 goal in each period to get their 5 points;
>>but no they kept putting it to us.
Actually, you often DO need those points.
When there are a lot of teams in a division, by the end of 3 games there are
3 way ties for 1st, 2nd etc...
In order to decide who moves to playoffs, things like Goals for and against
are taken into account.
For example, in the tournament we just came back from, here were the criteria
for deciding a tie:
1. record against other tied teams
2. total wins
3. difference between goal for and against
4. Lowest goals against
5. highest goals for
6. least penalty minutes
- --
Megan Bryant
Rhythm & Hues Go Polar Cats!
310 448 7551
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:38:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jessica Yeo
Subject: Re: Brampton
ive gotta put my word in on the tournament. I do
think it was well run, esp. for the # of teams, but
i hate the period point system. my team won our 1st
two games and lost our third, but we were low in the
standings just because of period points. If it were a
normal system (just wins and ties points) we would
have had a good chance of being in the finals.
===
Jessica (AirYeo) Yeo#4 Sylvania Maple Leafs
The Womens Hockey World
http://www.angelfire.com/oh/whockey
Official Defiance Bulldogs Girls Soccer Site
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/3955/index.html
Official Sylvania Maple Leafs Site
http://www.angelfire.com/oh/SylvaniaMapleLeafs
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 22:11:19 -0400
From: Louise
Subject: Re: Brampton
At 06:38 PM 4/7/99 -0700, Jessica Yeo wrote:
[...]
>i hate the period point system. my team won our 1st
>two games and lost our third, but we were low in the
>standings just because of period points. If it were a
>normal system (just wins and ties points) we would
>have had a good chance of being in the finals.
I have run several simulations comparing the Brampton/Quebec scoring system
(total of five points given out for each game, two for the game and one for
winning each period), with the traditional two-point system. The
Brampton/Quebec system consistently produces *fewer* ties that would need
to be broken by examining goals for and against, etc. This is simpler for
everyone to understand, and there is less chance of hard feelings because
of a miscalculation.
Another advantage of the Brampton/Quebec system, then, is that there should
be less motivation for a team to run up the score on a weak opponent.
Coaches and strategists do need to be aware of the implications of Brampton
scoring, and to plan game tactics accordingly.
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:26:52 EDT
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Brampton
I've played in quite a few roller hockey games where we've gotten creamed.
(one game we only had 3 players and they scored 18 goals on us, although...we
did score 3 against them) but hey we still had fun. I would looove to play in
some big tournament. And if the team I was on, lost, at least I would've had
the experience of a big tournament. I'm only 16, and to me, hockey's just a
game, for fun. You win some, you lose some (and the occasional tie). Now if
the other team was playing dirty, well then thats something else.
Jennie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 20:18:45 -0700
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Re: Brampton
At 10:11 PM 4/7/99 -0400, Louise wrote:
>At 06:38 PM 4/7/99 -0700, Jessica Yeo wrote:
>[...]
>>i hate the period point system. my team won our 1st
>>two games and lost our third, but we were low in the
>>standings just because of period points. If it were a
>>normal system (just wins and ties points) we would
>>have had a good chance of being in the finals.
>
>I have run several simulations comparing the Brampton/Quebec scoring system
>(total of five points given out for each game, two for the game and one for
>winning each period), with the traditional two-point system. The
>Brampton/Quebec system consistently produces *fewer* ties that would need
>to be broken by examining goals for and against, etc.
That is not an argument in favor of it. I can think of dozens of schemes
that produce few ties (Choose the team that weighs the most. Choose the
team with more teal in their jersey. Rank teams by length of hair on the
longest-haired player.) The issue is not whether the scheme produces few
ties, but whether it's fair, and whether it places teams that are
intuitively "better" higher than teams that are intuitively "worse". If
the Brampton/Quebec system ranks teams on how many periods they outscored
their opponents, then I think it sucks, because what matters is the
score at the end of the game, not how you did in the third period when
you were already up by 7 goals and you wanted to give your third-stringers
a chance on the power play.
- -- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:55:29 -0400
From: Louise
Subject: Re: Brampton
At 08:18 PM 4/7/99 -0700, Anne Paulson wrote:
>At 10:11 PM 4/7/99 -0400, Louise wrote:
>>At 06:38 PM 4/7/99 -0700, Jessica Yeo wrote:
>>[...]
>>>i hate the period point system. my team won our 1st
>>>two games and lost our third, but we were low in the
>>>standings just because of period points. If it were a
>>>normal system (just wins and ties points) we would
>>>have had a good chance of being in the finals.
>>
>>I have run several simulations comparing the Brampton/Quebec scoring system
>>(total of five points given out for each game, two for the game and one for
>>winning each period), with the traditional two-point system. The
>>Brampton/Quebec system consistently produces *fewer* ties that would need
>>to be broken by examining goals for and against, etc.
>
>That is not an argument in favor of it. I can think of dozens of schemes
>that produce few ties (Choose the team that weighs the most. Choose the
>team with more teal in their jersey. Rank teams by length of hair on the
>longest-haired player.) The issue is not whether the scheme produces few
>ties, but whether it's fair, and whether it places teams that are
>intuitively "better" higher than teams that are intuitively "worse". If
>the Brampton/Quebec system ranks teams on how many periods they outscored
>their opponents, then I think it sucks, because what matters is the
>score at the end of the game, not how you did in the third period when
>you were already up by 7 goals and you wanted to give your third-stringers
>a chance on the power play.
If you were playing the Brampton system, you'd be giving your
third-stringers a chance earlier in the game. Once you've outscored the
opponent in a given period, there is very little reason to run up the score
and be up by 7 goals. That should be a big advantage of the
Brampton/Quebec system. (The stories in this newsgroup this week suggest
that many coaches don't understand or believe this yet, though.)
Of course it's important that the scoring system be a good measure of which
team is better. But tournaments need to find "winners" in a predictable
amount of ice time (you can't have the tied teams play another game; you'd
prefer not to need overtime), even when the teams are very closely matched,
and the Brampton system gives clear winners more often than the two-point
system.
Louise
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End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #407
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