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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #113
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Friday, January 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 113
In this issue:
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
female officials
2 articles in Hockey News this week
Re: SF Bay area leagues
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
The Game of Her Life/Lesbian Hockey Players
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
fundraising for tournament
"Valley" hockey
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Re: The Game of Her Life/Lesbian Hockey Players
Re: The Game of Her Life/Lesbian Hockey Players
Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:48:33 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Hey AV You are someone after my own heart. I couldn't agree with you more about your comments. I have been playing hockey for many years and watching the Canadian team since the beginning. You don't have to be an expert to see that Angela should be on the team. All the things that have been said about her is a crock. Miller can say whatever she wants to about her, it doesn't mean it's true. Defensive liability? Crap. Anyone who has watched Angela play knows what she brings to the ice. Hell the Americans must have had a party to celebrate the news that she had been cut. They were more shocked than we were. And believe me don't think that hasn't made a difference to their confidence. Knowing they don't have to face her anymore is a huge lift for them. There is a lot of stuff that we will probably never know about what happened behind closed doors. People that are new to watching the women's game will think that we should get over this and what's the big deal it's only one playe!
r but we know different. You were right on the money with your comments about her play and the play of the others. She is one of the old workhorses that will be sorely missed, simply because the coach didn't like her. Very sad.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:31:22 -0400
From: Jennifer CG Nelson
Subject: female officials
female officials
there is a nice article in the usa hockey magazine (received yesterday) on
an all-female officiating crew.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:27:46 -0500
From: Val Schmitt
Subject: 2 articles in Hockey News this week
The Hockey News has 2 articles on the US/Can olympic teams this week.
One's a short generic article, the other features Wickenheiser
(interesting take on her play in practice v. games and the effect of
being the "best" woman on the ice), and profiles on the entire Canadian
team. Actually, there could be more than that, but I had to stop reading
to come to work...
I also saw (in THN, or somewhere else... can't remember) a short piece
saying that Tony Granato's good game against Calgary last week was due
to Cammi being in town. She supposedly both pushed him verbally to get
into the game more mentally and inspired him through her own game the
night before.
- -- Val
=================================================================
Val Schmitt http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9687
play: email@hidden work: email@hidden
** Nighthawks Ice Hockey C Team #22 ** Go SJ Sharks! **
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 1998 09:29:34 -0700
From: "Randi Tyler"
Subject: Re: SF Bay area leagues
>Does anyone have information about Bay area leagues -- especially in the
>Redwood City/Redwood Shores area?
There is a women's league which plays in the SF Bay Area called the Northern
California Women's Hockey League. We play about 50% of our games at the
Belmont Iceland which is near the Redwood City/Redwood Shores area. We also
play at the Fremont and Oakland rinks. There are three divisions:
Beginner/Recreational, Intermediate and Advanced. We are just about to begin
the registration process for our Summer 1998 season which will start in May.
Also, NCWHL is having a "Give Hockey A Try Day" where women are encouraged to
come out and try the fun sport of ice hockey. Women need no previous
experience and will be able to register for the league's beginner division
after the session if they so choose. The event will take place on Saturday,
February 14th, at the Belmont Iceland (815 Old County Road). The women will
be on the ice from 5:45 to 7:00 PM, but are asked to arrive by 5:15 for
registration and orientation. Hockey skates are available at the rink.
Equipment for the session, including helmets, will be provided by women
currently playing with the NCWHL on a first come, first served basis for
those without equipment. The cost will be $12 for the session.
If anyone is interested in more specific information about the league or Give
Hockey A Try, please e-mail me at: email@hidden.
Or check out our website at: http://members.tripod.com/~NCWHL/
Randi
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:36:28 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Well , I respect the fact that these are your personal opinions ,as are mine. I won't reduce myself to calling your opinions ludicrous just because I don't agree with them, which make no mistake, I don't. You also have no way to know why this decision was made. However relying on heresay is also very dangerous. Things tend to get twisted around. That is why what my opinion of this situation is is based on is what I know not what I think. How I know this is my business.
Obviously I have struck a chord in the CHA, nice to know someone is listening. Please don't be fooled that other people don't share in this view, they do. They just don't wish to get involved.
Maybe by speaking out about these things something like this can be avoided in the future. It is interesting to note that you site commitment, attitude and teamwork as possible reasons for this situation. If you knew the player you were speaking about better you would know that to question these things about her is laughable. This was not just an unpopular decision, it was an incorrect decision.
Nice talking to you again Dave. We may not always agree on things but I appreciate your comments.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:51:17 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Cindy,
> She is one of the old workhorses that will be sorely missed, simply
> because the coach didn't like her. Very sad.
If you were a reporter, you would be thrown out of your editor's
office for making an unsubstantiated comment like that. What proof
do you have for such a comment?
The cuts made by the coaching staff are approved by the VP of Hockey
Operations. So, there is rarely any chance for personal feelings to
play a factor in the decision.
Sometimes, the character of the player is the determining factor in
deciding on whether or not the player will make the team. It is not
always purely talent that elevates one player over another.
Attitude, teamwork, commitment, etc. may be other factors that are
considered.
I have never been a hockey coach, but I do understand the importance
of a team concept. I have to trust our coaches to make the best
possible decisions, in all aspects of running that team. Will there
be mistakes made? More than likely. They are human like you and me.
Is it easy to make unpopular decisions? Absolutely not. That is why
I respect them even more for making them. Same holds true for the
decision on Messier on the men's team.
They had to know prior to making these decisions that they will be
thrown directly back in their faces should either team not accomplish
their ultimate goal of winning Olympic gold. However, they have made
what they feel are the best decisions in order to accomplish that
goal.
To suggest that a coach doesn't like a player and will risk realizing that
goal because of a personal dislike, is ludicrous.
Dave
(these are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the
position of my employer)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:25:32 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Cindy,
You should have introduced yourself to me when you were here watching
the daily workouts. That is what the coaches do, they see them
daily. So you must have seen all the players throughout their
training to determine whether or not they were worthy of making the
team. I mean I work here every day and I wouldn't have had a clue
who was performing well or not.
You cannot make a decision based soley on passed performances. I am
not saying the decision the coaches made is the right one, but they
are tasked with making them and since they see the players daily
(unlike you and I), I have to respect that decision. Nor do we have
to agree with the decisions that are made. But we are Canadians and
we should support our teams, not continue to search for fault. The
bottom line is this: if they win gold, they may have made the right
decisions (James, Messier, whatever the topic of the day is). If
they don't then those decisions will be in the forefront. I think
all involved in the decision making process know that.
> You also have no way to know why this decision was made.
Well, I do have some insight. My office is only a few doors away
from the offices of Shannon Miller, Daniele Sauvageau and Ray
Bennett. We tend to talk to one another at times when we meet in
the hall or in the kitchen. So some insight, yes.
> Obviously I have struck a chord in the CHA, nice to know someone is
> listening.
Well, me listening doesn't help your cause. My role is in
officiating. What is your inside scoop on that department?
I would just like people to stop complaining and support the team
that has been selected to represent this country. These women
deserve our support, not speculation on who should or should not be
on the team, because that will be a never ending debate.
And you are right, everyone is entitled to their opinion....
Go Canada Go!!
Dave
(the comments above are personal and do not reflect those of my
employer)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:47:39 -0400
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Dave and Cindy,
I don't know how much is wrong with Canada or the US team either, for that
matter. The spirits in our house are beginning to soar, with 3 hockey
players, a manager, a Tournament Director (that's me!) and other sundry ice
freaks. Not to mention the dual US/Canadian citizens. We bought a new VCR
to play and replay the games, and we don't intend to leave the house til
its all over. Just sit back and enjoy and be glad that you are here at
this point in sports history. It isn't worth playing Monday Morning
Quarterback if it means losing the meaning of the event. Cheers,
Debbie
***********************************************************
Debbie Minden
email@hidden
215-635-4817
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:02:02 -0600 (CST)
From: LM
Subject: The Game of Her Life/Lesbian Hockey Players
email@hidden (Liam, Agnes & Daniel Coughlan) wrote:
<>
Being in the US, I did not get to see this documentary. As a lesbian
hockey player, I'm curious about what the issue was and how she dealt with
it.
Laura
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:17:58 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Dave, I know what I know. I see what I see. I am not going to argue this further. We will agree to disagree. How is that? As for having a scoop on officiating, well, let's just leave that alone. You seem to have your hands full with that.
It's also too bad that you view an opposing position to that of the coaching staff as a "complaint". I understand that you are loyal to your employer and your "friends" down the hall but it still doesn't make it the right decision. Which by the way, is not based on "past performance". As you say it should be based on the present. Even more evidence that it was the wrong decision.
So where are we? Oh yes, one of the 10 best players in the country is not going to represent us in Nagano. Enough said.
(The above comments are personal and do reflect a vast majority of fans in this country.)
Go Canada Go!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:34:34 -0500
From: Tanya Martin
Subject: fundraising for tournament
Our assoc. had a successful fundraiser using the Upper Deck Women's
Hockey Cards at our tournament this year and have left over stock. If
you are having a tournament around the Olympics or just after, the
cards could be hot sellers for you. Email me privately for details. Oh,
just in case you think it would be too expensive to make a profit, the
prices I have seen for the cards on the list are quite a bit higher then
what we paid for our bulk shipment.
Tanya, #35
Gloucester Seniors
email email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:33:53 -0800
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: "Valley" hockey
New women's ice hockey league:
In the San Fernando Valley.
All levels welcome. Beginner-Advanced.
April 11 1998 Saturday draft evalulation. FREE!
Full teams are welcome.
April 18th Saturday. start of the season.
$200.00 / 15 games - 1 exhibition /13 season games/ 2 playoffs
week-end afternoon game times.
free pubic sessions all season long!
free jersey!
10% off at the hockey shop.
restaraunt across the street 50% off of beer, 25% off food.
Leslie Angel
818 893 1567
or e-mail to email@hidden (Megan).
- --
In Kentucky it is illegal to transport an ice cream cone in your pocket.
Megan #12 Greyhounds
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:23:54 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
So, Dave Baker's comments reflect only his own views, and not those of his
employer? In a public forum? On a mailing list subscribed to by God knows
how many people, including the Webmistress of the best women's hockey site in
existence?
Forgive me for being skeptical, but so far I haven't seen a single comment by
this gentleman on a controversial subject that doesn't either echo the Team
Canada party line, or be pious mouthings that complete miss the point of what
another poster was saying. He also seems to take great pains to swat down
anyone else who doesn't agree with the official positions of Shannon Miller
and her crew.
I certainly don't expect Mr. Baker to risk his job or become embroiled in a
political controversy at work. But I would very much appreciate it if he
didn't go out of his way to insult our intelligence. I am perfectly capable
of reading a boxscore, articles in The Hockey News (which has not been nearly
so kind, or circumspect, about the Angela James situation), or stuff on other
people's Web sites. Received wisdom belongs in religion, not a sporting
enterprise.
Sorry about the flame - but really!
Lisa Evans
Easthampton,MA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:37:37 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: The Game of Her Life/Lesbian Hockey Players
Second the motion - what *did* Miller say about it?
And speaking as a heterosexual divinity student, may I ask what the big deal
would be if there *were* lesbians on either national team? Statistically
speaking, there's an excellent chance of one or two members of both teams
being gay or bisexual, and that and fifty cents will get them a cruller at
Dunkin' Donuts/Tim Horton. Hockey skill should be the determining factor, not
sexual orientation - homophobes have the option of not participating, or maybe
dropping the bigotry. The whole issue is ridiculous, and completely
irrelevant to the actual purpose of these teams, which is to play hockey at
the Olympics.
BTW, in case someone brings up the "they'll be disruptive in the lockerroom
because they're gay and the straights won't be comfortable" argument, I have
two words: horse puckey. I went to a women's college (Smith) and lived with
both gays and straights. Two of my best friends from school now live in a
Boston marriage, and another is bisexual, as is a non-Smith friend with whom
I've travelled extensively. You know what was more disruptive, by an order of
magnitude, than sharing a bathroom or a dorm room or a hotel suite with a
lesbian? The straights' boyfriends using all the hot water on Sunday
mornings!
A player's sexual orientation should not factor into the equation *at all*,
any more than her ethnicity, race, or handedness. What counts is what she
gives on the ice.
Lisa Evans
Easthampton,MA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:26:27 -0800
From: "A.V. Chernin"
Subject: Re: The Game of Her Life/Lesbian Hockey Players
Shannon Miller just echoed that yes there are lesbians in hockey as there
are lesbians in ballet and in all aspects of society. She didn't really
say much else, but what else can you say?
email@hidden (Liam, Agnes & Daniel Coughlan) wrote:
think she demonstrated in several instances where she was prepared to
take on a tough issue straight on and not soft pedal or sidestep an
issue.
For example when the issue of Lesbian hockey players was brought up, she
didn't dismiss it, or shirk the issue; she dealt with it without
blinking. >>
> > Being in the US, I did not get to see this documentary. As a lesbian
> > hockey player, I'm curious about what the issue was and how she dealt
> with
> > it.
> >
> > Laura
> >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:54:34 -0800
From: "Phil & Debbie Cottrell"
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with Canada?
Dave Baker said:
>Well, I do have some insight. My office is only a few doors away
>from the offices of Shannon Miller, Daniele Sauvageau and Ray
>Bennett.
Any further questions?
>Well, me listening doesn't help your cause. My role is in
>officiating. What is your inside scoop on that department?
Ooh, a little touchy there.
>
>I would just like people to stop complaining and support the team
>that has been selected to represent this country.
I'm feeling an anthem coming on, a kind of quasi American "Love It or Leave
It" scenario.
>These women deserve our support, not speculation on who should or should
not be on the team
This is the big time now, if the rows of cereal boxes at Save-On Foods with
Team Canada players on 'em means anything. Therefore, team issues are going
to be debated in the media and in specialized forums like this. We care very
much about the team (read: the players, including those who were cut) and
the palpable sense of imbalance and manipulation causes the Miller skeptics
to worry. I count myself among them, even though I hope I'm dead wrong and
we score the gold in a cakewalk and she has the National Team job in
perpetuity (well, maybe that's going a bit far).
>
>(the comments above are personal and do not reflect those of my
>employer)
C'mon Dave, I bet they do!
Phil, Victoria, BC
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End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #113
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