Parent
From: email@hidden (Women-in-Hockey Digest)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #104
Reply-To: women-in-hockey
Sender: email@hidden
Errors-To: email@hidden
Precedence: bulk
Women-in-Hockey Digest Monday, January 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 104
In this issue:
Re: Women in the NHL
Re: Women in the NHL
Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
Thanks for the info
Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: The Game of Her Life
Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
Re: Women in the NHL
Re: The Game of Her Life
Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
Calgary April Ice Tournament
Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
women as linesmen
Team USA Souvenirs
CBC TV Coverage - Women's Hockey
=======================================================================
Unsubscribe:
Help:
or
=======================================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:39:04 -0800
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Women in the NHL
God I knew I'd get into this one sooner or later...
<>I agree with much of your post, and think that women can ref in the NHL.
I
>>think respect is important for any referee, and it has to be earned on
the
>>ice.
Yes, I completely agree. Refs never break up fights. That is the linesmans
job
(have you seen the size of these guys lately-gheesh they are huge!)
The ref has to be capable of taking a lot of guff from folks
(the NHL is nothing compared to what you can hear parents say in the
stands)
and anticipate the flow of the play and skate like heck. Also she has to
have a good commanding presence. I already know a couple of women like that
now who ref at the international level,
Heather McDaniel being one of them.
>>Strenght is important, but again, so is technique and respect.
Yes..I agree here too. these players are big...with the midget, juniors and
college level games you have strong guys, and a women has to be able and
willing to get
in to the middle of those fights and handle herself.
I think women can do that, and command respect, but what I know to be true
is that women are
not as strong as men, upper body wise..etc...that's just the bottom line.
And 2 guys at 220lbs swinging mad, better make my technique pretty darn
good.
I am not saying it can't be done, but the guys have it over us in terms of
breaking up fights.
As for diminutive men breaking up fights, yes again it can happen, but all
of the college and junior games I have seen that have teams known to hate
each other, do not have diminutive men in them lining. I am only stating
what I see. And I say this knowing my own
limitations as a female ref who only stands 5'3". (I hate that part,
knowing limitations and all)
<
Subject: Re: Women in the NHL
Forwarded from Dave Baker, who accidentally sent to me instead of
the list:
>> [Anne] wondered whether women could be refs in the NHL and Bevan
>> replied:
>>
>>> A major bar against female referees, IMHO, is that many referees start
out AS
>>> linesmen, and if we're conceding that few leagues are going to go out of
>> their
>>> way to consider women as linesmen, that'll be a problem.
>>
>> I didn't know that. I know that some of you listers are refs. Would
>> it be hard for a woman to be a linesman-- because of the fights,
especially--
>> or do you think that women could use other means than brute strength
>> to deal with fights?
>>
>> Are there women refs or linesmen in professional or major junior
>> hockey?
> There are no female officials in Major Junior or professional hockey
> in Canada that I am aware of.
>
> As for the comment about starting as linesman being a barrier to
> female officials, I must disagree. Almost all good referees were
> once linesmen. It is not uncommon to be a linesman in a higher
> league from what you referee. By doing so, when acting as a
> linesman, you are able to observe a more experienced official work as
> a referee and you can bring those traits you have learned to the
> games you works as a referee in the lower levels. Eventually, a
> decision must be made, do you continue working as a linesman, or do
> you wish to concentrate on refereeing with the hopes of advancing to
> the same level you have been working as a linesman?
>
> I don't see how this system would prevent female officials from
> advancing to higher levels if they had the ability to do so.
>
>
> David Baker
> Manager, Officiating
> CANADIAN HOCKEY
> email@hidden
> www.canadianhockey.ca
> www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:01:41 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
Believe me Dave if I had seen something positive I would have commented as such. However, that is not the case and to simply point out that fact is not negative it is just the truth. People need to wake up and realize our team is not playing the type of hockey we have become accustomed to right now. Whatever the reason. I have been following the team since 1990 in Ottawa. No one could want them to win more than I do. But I'm also realistic. I just call it as I see it. And the way things look right now I am not overly optomistic. And by the way, despite the slight edge in shots, Lesley Reddon did not get enough credit for saving what could have been another embarassing loss. Ofcourse I hope they are successful in their attempt to win the gold medal. But I am not going to just blindly dismiss the sloppy play we are seeing right now. I'm not sure this team has what it will take to win a gold medal. We will see.
>>> DAVE BAKER 01/19/98 06:23AM >>>
> I would like to know how you can be "loyal" to Cassie Campbell.
> She has played just awful in the 3 or 4 games that I have watched.
> I have seen her play in Toronto with her Club team many times and
> s e is a very competent player but her faults are showing up now as
> I knew they would. Why isn't anyone saying the truth about how
> Canada has been playing basically since the last worlds which is
> God wful. The wins they do have against the US have been due to
> luck or exceptional goaltending like this past Friday night in
> Vancouver. I think some of us are in denial.
Hey Cindy, why so negative? Why not support the team and wish them
well. Sure Leslie Reddon played well on Friday night. But the teams
were pretty even in shots at 27-23, so I don't think goaltending was
the huge factor you make it out to be. The competition between these
two teams has been fantastic and exciting and will make for some
exciting hockey in Nagano. So, sit back and enjoy, and cheer!!!
Believe me, these women want to win and are giving it their best.
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:59:50 +400
From: "Winglab"
Subject: Thanks for the info
Thanks everyone for updating hockey stuff, I really
appreciate it because I have no other source. Besides, I
get absolutely no support at home for playing, and whenever
my dad's home, there is no hockey, period! Also, thanks for
the encouragement about my knee, went to the doc and he
said not to worry about the tear in my miniscus, it's not
that bad, and my kneecap is getting better. I've really
been staying off the ice though so I'm getting really
antsy. Anyway, as soon as the video on women's hockey comes
out in the US I'll be the first in line for it, of course
didn't get to see anything over here. Gotta go. ASIA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:21:29 EST
From: Jen29H
Subject: Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
>> I would like to know how you can be "loyal" to Cassie Campbell. She has
played just awful in the 3 or 4 games that I have watched.
>>
Even though I'm not going for canada, or whatever, being loyal has nothing to
do with how well they play. No matter how lousy or good my favorite team or
player is doing, I'm still going to like them. Just because they're doing
lousy is no reason to stop cheering for them. If you're a true fan you'll
stick with your fav team/player good times and bad.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:38:31 -0500
From: "Kristen M. Ede"
Subject: Re: The Game of Her Life
I have to admit, I certainly had a different take on the documentary and
specifically Coach Shannon Miller.
I went from being indifferent to being a Coach Miller supporter. Did she
hamm it up for the cameras? Perhaps.. And why shouldn't she? She is
proud of coaching one of the best hockey teams in the world at its first
Olympic games. And, for the first time we are being taken seriously by the
media. I personally found her locker room speeches motivating. Especially
the one after the first period (when we were down a goal), and at the
conclusion of the Canada vs. Finland game in the '97 Worlds.
To say that she enjoyed cutting those girls because she likes confrontation
and attention, in my opinion, is not fair. She is the Coach of an Olympic
team and had to make some tough decisions to create the best possible team
that she can. Did the man that cut Messier like confrontation as well?
Miller was upfront with Angela James all along about her status on the
team. Cutting AJ and Letendre from the team was not an enjoyable part of
her duties as a Coach. (On a side note, I though Letendre's composure and
integrity was remarkable right after learning that she was cut from the
team)
Was her presence on the stairwell ominous when the Manon interview was
talking place? Absolutely!! This is her team and she will do what it
takes to protect the integrity and the cohesiveness of it. Every Coach has
a different coaching style. Bowman and Keenan are the 2 most winningest
coaches in the NHL and most people consider them totally confrontational
and basic SOB's. Miller is there to win hockey games. She has a great
record and it is obvious that she has the respect of her players ( which is
way more than can be said about alot of successful NHL coaches)
I agree that there has to be a balance in everyone's life.... unless your
an Olympic athlete. Spending 5-6 months away from their home preparing for
the biggest game of their lives is hardly much of a sacrifice. Many
Olympic athletes train at that intensity for years before the Olympics, not
just months. Sure its tough mentally, but that is what makes them not just
athletes, but Olympic athletes. Like Miller said, there are easily 20
other girls that could replace that team and handle the wins over the
Swedes and the Fins, but it is these 20 girls that have been chosen because
they have the grit and character to handle the tough situations as well.
I agree that their play has not been as good in the past couple months.
The road to Nagano has been a little bumpy. However, their ultimate goal
IS Nagano, that is when they have to be ready!
Just my two cents worth...
Kristen
#10
P.S. I also would like to add that I was very impressed with Manon
determination and perseverance to fight back and earn a spot on the team.
(Hmmm...savvy coaching tactic to get the most out of a world class
goalie???)
.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:27:09 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
I am a true Canadian team fan. No mistaking that. However I am not a big fan of Cassie Campbell. While I'm sure she is a very nice person she is not the best available defenseman on the hockey scene. While I will agree everyone's judgement of these things is different mine just happens to disagree with her selection. And while we're on the subject of dubious selections the omission of Angela James from the squad will definately hurt the team. She was and is an outstanding player. I wish the team well notwithstanding.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:38:13 -0500
From: Richard Johnston
Subject: Re: Women in the NHL
Additional information:
During Erin Whitten's tenure with the Flint Generals was
suited up as a skater (to make up for injured players) and
had to sit a bench penalty. At the end of the penalty she
skated 19 seconds as a player becoming the first women to
play as a non-goalie on a professional ice hockey team.
Hope that a pro- USA/Canada Women's league does get
started!
Rich Johnston
Dix Hill's Rebels Girls Midget "B" Ice Hockey
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:52:29 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: The Game of Her Life
At 11:14 AM 1/19/98 +0000, you wrote:
> What exactly is her record with Team Canada since takin over?
Shannon Miller's record as head coach since taking on the job
beginning with the Pacific Rim tournment in San Jose in 1995 is an
outstanding 36 wins and 7 losses.
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:53:27 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
Subject: Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
> I would like to know how you can be "loyal" to Cassie Campbell.
> She has played just awful in the 3 or 4 games that I have watched.
> I have seen her play in Toronto with her Club team many times and
> s e is a very competent player but her faults are showing up now as
> I knew they would. Why isn't anyone saying the truth about how
> Canada has been playing basically since the last worlds which is
> God wful. The wins they do have against the US have been due to
> luck or exceptional goaltending like this past Friday night in
> Vancouver. I think some of us are in denial.
Hey Cindy, why so negative? Why not support the team and wish them
well. Sure Leslie Reddon played well on Friday night. But the teams
were pretty even in shots at 27-23, so I don't think goaltending was
the huge factor you make it out to be. The competition between these
two teams has been fantastic and exciting and will make for some
exciting hockey in Nagano. So, sit back and enjoy, and cheer!!!
Believe me, these women want to win and are giving it their best.
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:39:21 -0500
From: Madeleine Oldham
Subject: Calgary April Ice Tournament
I finally found out some info about the Calgary April Ice Tournament.
This is a really fun weekend - last year there were over 60 women's
teams of all levels participating.
Dates: Easter Weekend, Thursday through Sunday April 9-12
Registration Deadline: February 28
Fee: $450
Contact: Lynne Polumbo (403)272-8476 email: email@hidden
- -madeleine
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:18:03 -0800
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: Re: The play of Hayley Wickenheiser
>> I would like to know how you can be "loyal" to Cassie Campbell. She has
>>played just awful in the 3 or 4 games that I have watched.
>Even though I'm not going for canada, or whatever, being loyal has nothing to
>do with how well they play. No matter how lousy or good my favorite team or
>player is doing, I'm still going to like them. Just because they're doing
>lousy is no reason to stop cheering for them. If you're a true fan you'll
>stick with your fav team/player good times and bad.
I agree.
I hope that no one will have the opportunity to call me a fair weather fan!
Sort of like marraige. For better or worse.
If more people took their marraiges as serious as thier sports alliances,
tere would be a lot less divorce!
- --
Megan #12 greyhounds
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:35:03 EST
From: Kittencat3
Subject: women as linesmen
Mr. Baker's comments strike me as utterly disingenuous. Anyone who follows
professional hockey, at any level, is well aware that *all* the officials,
including sometimes the referees, have to be prepared to break up fights. I
personally saw Mick McGeough, now with the NHL, do so in the 1990 Calder Cup
playoffs when a game got out of control. To say that all a female official
has to do is decide to concentrate on being a referee and not a linesman is
avoiding reality.
Plus, most referees *do* start out as linesmen, and most linesmen prepare for
this by working as referees on lower levels - virtually all the summer league
games in the western Massachusetts areas are referred by John Malinowski and
Marty Demers, who are veteran AHL linesmen. During the pro season they
routinely have to break up fights, often quite vicious ones; minor league
goons are often much rougher than NHL enforcers because they think the only
way they're going to be noticed is if they rack up enormous PIM totals.
Linesmen in the NHL development program expect to break up fights, and the
bigger they are, the better.
Finally, smaller linesmen (and officials in general) are at a distinct
disadvantage, probably because of the physical side of the play. Short AHL
officials almost never make it to the bigs, regardless of how good they are; I
was friends with a linesman who was about 5'8", and when he was cut from the
training program, he was explicitly told he was too short for consideration at
the NHL level. Considering that the average woman is about four inches
shorter and about forty pounds lighter than the average man, this puts most
female officials out of it from the beginning.
I'd like to see women work as referees in the NHL, but let's see how it works
in the minors for a few years before making any blithe statements about how
all you have to do is work hard and specialize as a referee.
Lisa Evans
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:44:41 +0000
From: Kelly Connelly
Subject: Team USA Souvenirs
Does anyone know who or where to call to order official USA Olympic Women's
Team souvenirs and merchandise.
Thanks,
Kelly
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:52:34 -0500
From: Karin Lofstrom
Subject: CBC TV Coverage - Women's Hockey
Get your calendars out and get ready to set your alarm clocks or VCR to be
sure to see all the Canadian Women's Hockey Games on CBC TV.
Nagano Olympic CBC-TV Broadcast Schedule - Women's Hockey
February 8 Canada vs Japan 11:00 pm PST / 2:00 am EST
February 9 Canada vs China 3:00 am PST / 6:00 am EST
February 10 Canada vs Sweden 7:00 pm PST / 10:00 pm EST
February 12 Canada vs Finland 3:00 am PST / 6:00 am EST
February 14 Canada vs USA 3:00 am PST / 6:00 am EST
February 17 Gold Medal Game 1:00 am PST / 4:00 am EST
To get your Canadian Women's Team souvenirs send a message to
email@hidden to get a copy of our flyer sent to you directly.
GO CANADA GO !!
Karin Lofstrom
KL Sports
"sport source for women"
2746 Farriers Lane
Gloucester, Ontario
Canada K1T 1X8
fax: (613)739-3316
email: email@hidden
web: www.trytel.com\~klsport
(currently under construction)
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #104
*************************************