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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #148
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 148
In this issue:
Re: programs
Where were the men?
Ack, this is getting sad.
Where do I go from here?
Re: please clarify
coaches / usa success
Silver Medal
Re: Ack, this is getting sad.
Re: programs
Shannon Miller/Toronto Star
latest posts
Team USA Hat
Medal Question
Re: Gold Medal Game/Aftermath/Thoughts
Male coach or Female coach
Re: High School Hockey
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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:17:17 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: programs
Since 10 of the 22 players from Team Canada all played club hockey in Toronto why not have the National teams camp in Toronto? Then they and the rest of the players could play for any of the teams in the COWHL. They would not only have great competition for all those months but also it wouldn't cost as much to house them since half of them would live in their own homes. Is this an unlikely scenerio?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:18:42 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Where were the men?
In a message dated 98-02-18 00:07:57 EST, email@hidden writes:
<<
Gimme a break! Just because they didn't come to the game you think the
American players are evil?! So what that they didn't! Yes, it would have
been nice if they had been there, but why should they be expected to go?
(expected to the point that if they don't show up that some people are as
hard on them as you just were.) It makes you sick to your stomach? Is it
really that big of a deal? If some of the Canadian men had not have shown
up would anybody be criticizing either side? No, nobody would have noticed.
I'm sorry to sound somewhat harsh here but I think you blew this way out of
proportion.
Be well.>>
I'm going to beat the dead horse on this one...
I briefly mentioned the lack of men in my initial observation about the gold
medal game. When I wrote it, I knew that there may have been circumstances
that kept them from going. The fact that a meeting was held at the same time
shows that Ron Wilson didn't care.
Why does this bother me?
I went to a college with an NCAA Division I men's team. I must admit that
there were some women who joined our women's club team with the hopes that
somehow this would get them "in" with the guys (boy, were they wrong!). Most
of the women just wanted to play hockey. If we knew one or two of the guys
personally, we might have been "graced" with a decent word or smile when they
were by themselves - certainly not if there were other hockey players around.
God forbid we try to talk to one of them if we met in the equipment room or
the locker room hallways. Do they have to speak with everyone they meet? No.
But one would expect the common bond of hockey to show a little respect to
other human beings. One wouldn't even expect a common bond to get more
respect from these guys than we did. This was my experience at my school. I
am not speaking for every D-I school out there.
Never mind the women showing up for our daily 6:30am practice only to find the
men have taken it without telling us ahead of time. Never mind the
university's arena manager bumping the women's game for a local pee-wee boys'
game. These are just two small examples of the lack of respect for women in
this sport and there are thousands of more out there.
As a straight white woman with gay and black friends, I have found that it is
hard to understand why people would be upset about certain things unless you
have experienced the discrimination or lack of concern yourself.
Does it make me sick to my stomach? No. The women really showed the men up
this time. I went to the 1996 World Cup final game in Montreal and was really
proud of our men at that time. Rumors around here say that our men didn't
even try to show up for the Olympics. I am far more proud of our women now
than I was of our men then.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:44:40 -0600
From: "Daun DeFrance"
Subject: Ack, this is getting sad.
Is it me or is this list getting entirely too snappish? Everyone has to
have last word... and so be it, just take it off the list and do it
privately. I am getting sick of reading posts that quote previous offensive
remarks and then amend one truly puerile remark at the end. Not to single
anyone out, but Chuq? Come on, you're bigger than this.
Someone should do a survey (ala Boston Globe) and calculate how much of the
typical Women-in-Hockey Digest is devoted to non-constructive emails. More
than should be, I guarantee it.
Just turn the other cheek. Those with healthy contributions can rely on the
fact that the rest of us who enjoy reading your posts will appreciate you
all the more for not cluttering every digest with defensive quips. I'm not
policing, Lord knows there's already too much of that on the list. Just
think about what you are sending and ask yourself if EVERYONE needs to hear
it. Chances are, you're not saving face by sending it.
Donning my asbestos, flame-retardant suit,
Daun
"Deviations from the truths of the blood begets neurotic restlessness...
Restlessness begets meaninglessness, and the lack of meaning in life
is a soul-sickness whose full extent and full import our age has not yet
begun to comprehend."
- Michael Crichton, Travels
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:39:28 -0500
From: email@hidden
Subject: Where do I go from here?
I have never played hockey before, but I have always wanted to. When I was
in grade school I figure skated. I hated wearing the dresses 'cause I was
a tomboy, but I loved speed skating around people, seeing if I could make
them fall and all. I grew up in the suburbs of Atlanta, where hockey was
pretty unheard of, and women's hockey - no such thing. Anyway, I always
had a desire to play hockey, but never did anything about it. So now, I'm
25 and out of college and working. I feel that I've missed my opportunity.
All throughout my childhood I've played all kind of sports - soccer,
basketball, softball, tennis, and x-country; but, never hockey. Anyway, I
played roller hockey for one summer in college and loved it. But, I felt
it was missing something for me personally, ice. Lately, ice has been a
big part of my life - mountaineering and ice climbing. The turning point
was actually watching women's hockey on the Olympics. So, where do I go
from here? I live in Columbus, OH near OSU. I've checked with OSU about
playing in their intramural league, but because I'm not a student, that
option is out. I've been working out every other day and biking at least
once a week, getting myself psyched up and ready to play somewhere. I went
ice skating last weekend for the first time since grade school and it all
came back. I was all psyched speed skating backwards and all. I really
think ice hockey is it 'cause I've got the combo of ice skating and soccer
which I played all my life and I've got the mental toughness, the only
question is whether a 5', 98 lb can handle the blows; I know I'll have to
work on that. So, I was a little disappointed to join this e-mail list to
find people squabbling about coaches, the US team, the Canadian team, etc.
I just joined 'cause I want to learn about hockey. I'm an outsider, I
didn't know what was going on with the Women's Olympics on the inside, but
I don't care. All I know, is that yes, it made me realize that women's
hockey is a big deal. I'll have everyone know that the message has at
least gotten to one person, that women's hockey is real. Does anyone have
any tips? Are there such things as women's hockey leagues for those of us
out of college?
Shannon Hetrick
Columbus, OH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:09:01 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: please clarify
At 4:03 AM -0800 2/19/98, Bec Kemp wrote:
> I need some clarification. Are these messages coming from Chuq the
> listeserver subscriber or Chuq the List Mom?
If it's from the List Mom, to start, it's flagged with an "Admin:" flag
in the subject line. And I make it very clear that it's an official
statement in the text. And I sign it "List Mom".
Most people can figure out from what I say whether I'm commenting on
something or whether I'm yelling at them. Trust me. If I'm yelling at
someone, you'll know.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 08:58:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
Subject: coaches / usa success
This coaching issue is interesting. I am all for awarding coaching
positions to those who are qualified no matter the gender, race, religious
or sexual orientation, etc.
Some seem to be presenting Ben Smith as the be-all that ends-all to
coaches. Personally, I disagree. I have a problem that he was hired to be
the US Women National Team's coach. Sure, he did a fine job in the
Olympics but I strongly believe that there are some highly qualified female
collegiate coaches that are just as good, or even better than Mr. Smith. I
think his placement was a political move - a
thank-you-for-your-previous-service and
here-is-a-place-you-can-now-go--move (no proof, just my gut feeling).
If you have a female coach that is of equal talent or better, then why the
heck not give her a shot. Seems obvious but doesn't happen too often. Yeah,
Smith has certain high level experience but I think if we keep on giving
the position to a guy who just happens to have a certain situational
experience ... then women coaches will never get to that level. Men have
been doing this a lot longer and women coaches will never catch up at this
rate.
I recently witness a situation where a woman coach was replaced by a male
coach who had barely equal qualifications and experience. This is so sad
to see and I believe in this particular situation it had a lot to do with
the old-boys-network that is so well established in hockey... and maybe a
little to do with the inability to deal with strong women. This is not the
coaches fault but the organizations. This is not male-bashing, it is just
the fact that men have been there so long and have developed strong ties.
But basically, after seeing this, I felt like I took a step back in
time.... I get that sensation many times in respect to hockey.
On a side note in reference to the US's success:
I think that the success of the US had more to do with consistent coaching
over a long period of time (same person) than *who* it actually was. In
the past the coaches kept on rotating in and out, so how the heck can a
player do what a coach wants and develop any systems when they keep getting
new staff. It was great to see the US team gel together, especially in the
Olympics, and having a coach that was there for a long period of time was
the key (also a key was playing the Canadians over and over until the US
players mentally figured out that the Canadians were beatable). I just wish
the coach had been one of the many female coaches that I thought was highly
deserving and qualified. Maybe next time. :)
Zoe
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:03:00 -0700
From: "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
Subject: Silver Medal
Although Phil may not have put it in the best possible way, I believe
that he's correct in that, given our talent pool and the players that
were selected, Canada was a lock to be in the final except for maybe
Finland. China was the 4th place team and club teams here in Alberta
played them even. The absolute worst without the team bus falling into
the Sea of Japan would be 4th. Throw them on the ice and let them skate
as individuals and they'll beat Japan, that's how they scored the first
3 goals. Just emphasizing the fundamentals of cover your man in front
of the net, control the rebounds, head man the puck and set up the
offensive triangle would get you into the Gold Medal game.
When the Juniors lost it was "our program's in trouble". Saying that
about the women's program is nothing new. The junior's coach took a lot
of heat for the loss, in my opinion deserved, and Shannon's taking the
same heat. Doesn't mean the program is bad, just means the coaching
could be better. How many NHL coaches are successful their first time
out? In the NHL, there's always next season but, unfortunately, we have
to wait 4 years for another shot at Olympic Gold, the same way this
year's Mens squad had to wait. We still produce some of the best hockey
players in the worlds and some of the best coaches, it's all a matter of
putting them together at the same time.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:26:07 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Ack, this is getting sad.
> Someone should do a survey (ala Boston Globe) and calculate how much of the
> typical Women-in-Hockey Digest is devoted to non-constructive emails. More
> than should be, I guarantee it.
It would be different for every person, Daun. That's the problem --
every message in the list is here because someone thought it was
important enough to post.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:30:24 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: programs
<< Then they and the rest of the players could play for any of the teams in
the COWHL. They would not only have great competition for all those months but
also it wouldn't cost as much to house them since half of them would live in
their own homes. Is this an unlikely scenerio? >>
I've no idea how likely it is, but it sounds like a good idea ...
~ Bevan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:39:59 -0500
From: email@hidden
Subject: Shannon Miller/Toronto Star
Greetings all...
Thought some of you might be interested in two comments from the Toronto
Star regarding Shannon Miller during the course of the Olympics:
February 8th:
"Memo to Shannon Miller, Olympic women's hockey coach: Relax. This is the
Olympics. This is supposed to be fun. Smile. Enjoy... You look up
strung-out in the dictionary and what you find is Canada's women's hockey
team. They have already won the gold medal for tension."
February 17th:
"Regardless of the outcome of today's gold medal game, it seems clear that
while the Americans have found the run-up to and participation in the 18th
Winter Olympics as a largely joyful process it has been a very different
experience for the Canadian women. An effort by major Canadian news
organizations to give fair coverage of women's hockey for the first time
ever seems to have ground the Canadian women down over time. At these
Olympics, coach Shannon Miller has taken to treating the Canadian media as
the enemy and delivering oddly rehearsed speeches. Issues have been dealt
with by cold statements rather than relaxed player availability."
No matter what is thought of Shannon Miller (I won't comment - I don't know
her and have no idea what she said to her players in the sanctity of their
dressing room), the bottom line is the leap forward women's hockey has made
in the past few weeks. We all win despite the colour of the medal...
Here's a question: If Canada had indeed won the gold, would we be composing
complimentary e-mails about Ms. Miller and her "unique" coaching
techniques?
Heather.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:00:12 -0800
From: Tammie Weigl
Subject: latest posts
>Gimme a break! Just because they didn't come to the game you think the
> American players are evil?! So what that they didn't! Yes, it would >have been nice if they had been there, but why should they be expected >to go?
At the breakfast table, my husband and I were discussing the defeat of
the US men's team. To quote my husband--"Maybe they should have gone to
the women's games and learned how to win at Olympic Hockey, instead of
hanging out at karaoke bars till 5am.." :)
Tammie
Tammi
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:10:17 -0500
From: Ken
Subject: Team USA Hat
For all those interested. The hats Team USA was wearing after the game are
available at the below link.
http://www.usahockey.com/merchandise/storelink.htm
Other items available there also!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:38:47 -0500
From: Ken
Subject: Medal Question
Does anyone know if the coaching and support staff gets Olympic medals
along with the players?? I noticed, in all the interviews after the game,
that Ben Smith did not have one hanging around his neck.
On the address I gave in an earlier message concerning the USA Hockey site
that has the player hats. I also failed to mention that they have the
official lockeroom t-shirt that the players wore also. Neat stuff! Here's
the address again if anyone missed it.
http://www.usahockey.com/merchandise/storelink.htm
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:17:21 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Gold Medal Game/Aftermath/Thoughts
On the USA hockey website, they have a Gold Medalists hockey cap. Although it
is not gender specific, I assume they were going to use it for both teams.
Anyway, I tried to call the 800# to order it and the clerk did not have it in
her system yet. So, you can see at the website or try 1-800-446-8423.
Krystal #14
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:22:18 -0500
From: Donald Wright
Subject: Male coach or Female coach
At 12:09 AM 2/19/98 PST, you wrote:
>Chuq wrote:
>
>My point was that the "hockey is a man's game" attitude is furthered even
>in the women's and girls' game by the predominance of male coaches. The
>world championships, there were 2 female coaches, 6 male coaches. At the
>Brampton tournament last year, it was more like 90% male coaches. The
>US fired Karen Kay, hired Ben Smith.
>
>I was just trying to respond to the original poster's premise that the best
>coach for a team is the one who has the most skills. My reply is that, yes,
>at the National level that's probably true. At the developmental levels,
>I'd like to see preference given to women coaches, both for the message
>that gives to the players, and to further develop the talent pool.
>
>My desire is to see my daughter skate for the best coach available. If that
>coach is a woman, that makes it that much better. And maybe I'd trade off
>some coaching skills in favor of the female coach.
I couldn't agree more with Chuck. When I look around at my own
organization and the others we play against, the male/female coaching
ratio is similar to that mentioned above. Would I trade off coaching
skills in favor of a woman coach? Absolutely. If you know the game (very
important and learnable), and can skate a little, you can teach and coach.
I'll bet there are plenty of women out there who could become qualified
coaches if they aren't already.
Here's to hoping that the Olympics stirs interest not only in women hockey
players, but coaches as well.
Don Wright
RI Panthers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:34:21 -0500
From: "William G. Cumming"
Subject: Re: High School Hockey
You wrote:
I'm a high school hockey broadcaster (boys and girls) in Minnesota.
As far as I know, Minnesota is the only state in the U.S. with girls
high school hockey. Let me know how I can help.
Kevin:
You are sorely mistaken.
Massachusetts is in the third year of public HS play, and the prep schools
in the
east, also known as private HIGH schools, have had girls hockey for over 25
years. That is where Laurie Baker, Gretchen Ulion, A.J. Mleczko, Angela
Ruggiero, and others played, and are still playing, much of their hockey.
Cheers,
Bill
William G. Cumming Phone: (413)774-1448
Deerfield Academy FAX: (413)772-1129
Derfield, MA 01342 email: email@hidden
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End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #148
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