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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #143
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Wednesday, February 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 143
In this issue:
Re: Promises
RE: Don Cherry / Miller
Winners ALL!
Re: Don Cherry / Miller
In honor of women's hockey in the Olympics
Female Coaches
RE: Don Cherry / Miller
Re: Don Cherry / Miller
re: Miller
Proud in Canada
Re: Don Cherry
Media Coverage
RE: Don Cherry / Miller
Re: More aftermath
Goalie Equipment
Re: re: Miller
US TV Coverage
Ontario women's university league all-stars
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:37:48 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Promises
At 10:13 AM -0800 2/18/98, Cindy Goodman wrote:
>Are you planning to censor everyone from talking about the Canadian Team's
>coach or just me?
Cindy, I've been a *LOT* more tolerant of your opinions than you've been of
any opinion on the list you don't agree with. If I treated *you* the way
you've been treating everyone else on this list, you would have been
muffled long ago.
You wanna play martyr, fine. I'll help. you wanna be part of this list,
great too. Your choice. But my patience with you is rapidly running out.
There are other opinions on this list than yours, something you don't seem
to realize. And I'm tired of you stomping on anything you don't seem to
agree with.
You've had your say. Too bad you seem to think only your say matters.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:39:10 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: RE: Don Cherry / Miller
At 10:12 AM -0800 2/18/98, HARRIS, zharris wrote:
>I thought his behavior (on CBC) after the Gold game was
>disgusting. Talk about bitter loser! How about some sportsmanship?!?!
Don Cherry, like many people in this world, is a mixed blessing, because
he's a complicated human being with both strengths and faults.... That's
one thing that makes him so much fun to watch on TV.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:50:32 -0800
From: Mitzi Witchger
Subject: Winners ALL!
CourierCongrats to the all the
female hockey players who competed for their country in the Olympics.
Girls & women who play hockey, & those who want to, are the winners as
well. Gold, Silver, Bronze: whatever the score, female hockey players
are the winners! Whatever amount of positive media cover the Olympians
get will help all the rest of us get more interest, more respect, more
support, more players, better ice and scheduling times, more fans in
the stands. Females are changing the anatomy of hockey! Mitzi
Witchger, of GREAT! Girls Really Expect A Team!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:48:29 -0800
From: "Lynn or Mike Witkowski"
Subject: Re: Don Cherry / Miller
Subject: RE: Don Cherry / Miller
>*However,* I thought his behavior (on CBC) after the Gold game was
>disgusting. Talk about bitter loser! How about some sportsmanship?!?! It
>looked like his insides where being chewed up and all he was talking about
>was how wrong it was for Canada to lose...
>It was so sad!
Zoe, you just don't know Don Cherry. He was just being himself. He upsets
a lot of people with his opinions and statements... but that is Don Cherry.
Most Canadians don't take him too seriously. His heart is in the right
place. He is a true Canadian and a true hockey person!
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 11:20:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
Subject: In honor of women's hockey in the Olympics
In honor of the first time women's ice hockey is in the Olympics, the
Seattle Wings (of the Evergreen Female Hockey League), will be playing the
Burnaby Shamrocks of B.C., Canada on Saturday 21st - 2:30 at the Key Arena,
Seattle, WA.
This is the first time there will be women's ice hockey in the new Key
Arena!
Admission is free and there will be a Seattle Thunderbirds (Jr. "A" mens)
hockey game following.
Hope to see you there!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:11:00 -0700
From: "Hunter, Bill 464-8643"
Subject: Female Coaches
Cindy wrote
>I too want a female coaching the womens team. Don Cherry was right about
that. However, you can't put a female in that position simply because
you want a woman. The best available 'person' should be there. If there
is a woman qualified then great.<
I agree with you, one of the few times I don't agree with Don. The
best person should be coaching and the sex of the individual should
make no difference. Anything else is discriminatory. Male hockey
players are just as at risk from male coaches as female players are from
female coaches. I suspect that when comparing male coach/female athlete
situations vs female coach/male athlete, the risks are approximately
the same percentage wise. When the Graham James case broke, there were
a story about a female figure skating coach with male athletes. Then
there are those teachers which make the news every so often in the
States.....
As a coach, I have to be careful when I open the locker room door but
that's about it. I recognize that there's a slight difference in how to
handle female athletes and male ones having coached girls soccer as
well. (Men ARE capable of learning things once in a while.) Who
cares how many lesbians are in hockey. Or how many gays. I still play
hockey and if some of my teammates over the years have been gay, well
nobody grabbed me in the shower so why should I care. What they do
outside the rink has no bearing on me.
I have a real concern over the way female hockey is appearing to orient
itself into a "Women Only" organization. Female coach's only or all
female ref's for example. We had a fair number of first year ref's for
our midget games simply because they're women. The head female ref was
very experienced and (usually) called a good game but the others were
in over their heads. They should be learning where every other first
year ref learns, at the Tom Thumb/Novice/Atom level, not with us. The
same with coaches. After playing off and on for most of my life, I've
been coaching for the last 7 years. I know I still have a lot to learn
about the game. I learn from coaching materials, videos, watching high
level games and, perhaps most importantly, coaching against other,
better, coaches. If the coach you're coaching against is no better than
you, you really can't learn as much as fast. This may be the biggest
weakness in developing coaches in an all female organization. Because
it's still relatively young (due to the tremendous recent growth, l know
there's a long history to female hockey in Canada), nobody knows any
more than you do already. There have been female coaches in our minor
hockey system. A women become more experienced players and coaches,
opportunties will expand.
As competition gets better and skills improve, female coaches and
referees will improve too. It has to happen in a desegregated
environment. Segregating things will only intensify the battles over
ice time, facility use, funding and everything else associated with our
sport to the detriment of all.
That's my opinion but I welcome lots of healthy discussion
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 11:31:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
Subject: RE: Don Cherry / Miller
LW> Zoe, you just don't know Don Cherry. He was just being himself. He
LW> upsets a lot of people with his opinions and statements... but that is
LW> Don Cherry. Most Canadians don't take him too seriously. His heart is
LW> in the right place. He is a true Canadian and a true hockey person!
LW> Lynn
I've seen the guy before.... but I can't say I truly know him. But I just
thought it was bad because I am sure he is looked up to my many people
(esp. the youth... did you see the young girl that held a sign up recently
in a pro game that said, "I'll dump my boyfriend to meet Don Cherry" ?...
and she did get to meet him) and I just didn't think his behavior was
appropriate... fine for him to have an opinion but he must remember that
because he is on TV that many take on his opinion as their own... and poor
sportsmanship is something that should not be emulated.... as an adults we
man know this but what about the youth?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:33:09 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: Don Cherry / Miller
Yeah that's true about Don Cherry. He's been very good for the womens game. Very supportive. As have many of us. And the CBC hasn't censored him yet. Good thing.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:34:28 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: re: Miller
<< Dave Baker from the CHA keeps harping on and on saying that I just hate
her. He doesn't understand what I have been trying to say.>>
Try your very next message:
<>
This is not a statement likely to convince us you don't harbor a vendetta
against Miller. Perhaps David, like many of us, understands all too well.
For myself, I'm pretty weary of it. I'm willing to read reasoned debate over
Miller's coaching style. I'm bored with insinuations that she's the anti-
Christ.
<>
You haven't hesitated a jot in launching unsupported charges - alleged respect
for the team notwithstanding - if you're including yourself in the insider
category. May I ask two things? First, what proof do you have of your
various charges? Second, if you know more about the behind the scenes stuff
than others, what is the source of your information? Third, how do you
reconcile your suggestion that insiders really know the truth the rest of us
do not with your violent rejection of David's views, which COMES from a proven
and known insider?
~ Bevan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:29:28 -0500
From: "Kristen M. Ede"
Subject: Proud in Canada
First of all I would like to congratulate the American team for their win.
They played with a lot of determination and when it counted the most, they
were the better team and deserved the Gold.
I would also like to congratulate the Canadian team for a heart filled hard
fought battle. They showed class, grace and sportsmanship even in the face
of a devastating loss and made us proud.
With respect to Chuq's comments below:
>Speaking of polarized opinions of Shannon Miller.
>Cindy, I don't know why you hate Miller so much, but I hope some day
>you'll mellow out just enough to realize just how
>over-the-edge-of-reasonableness you are right now. But I don't think so.
>It's too bad you're so fixated on how evil Miller is, because whatever
>legitimate criticisms you have of her are constantly being lost in the
>venom you surround them with.
I could not agree more. Well said.
I want to stress that some of us do not have the time to write multiple
messages a day in response to the Miller bashing (or Dave Baker bashing for
that matter)! But that does not mean we support it.
Overall, this is the time that we should be rejoicing the tremendous
exposure that our game has just received. I am extremely proud to be a
women hockey player and to have been represented on an international level
by 6 teams comprised of strong, determined, talented women.
My sincere thanks to all involved.
Kristen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:43:57 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Don Cherry
In a message dated 98-02-18 10:03:06 EST, email@hidden writes:
<< He supported the argument by saying if the team is made up of
women, officiated by women, why ever would men be coaching. He said
there were lots of women coaches out there and that having a male coach
who dealt with the women as if he had a male team was not right. >>
Sorry, but for about the 1,000th time, I have to disagree with Don Cherry.
although even in disagreement, he has provided me countless hours of
enjoyment! I am a female Head Coach for our youth hockey association here in
Cincinnati. Every year I take whatever girls in the age division that have
signed up and incorporate them into my team. I have never had more than 2
mixed with 13 boys. I am so glad that my boys have not adopted that attitude
or I wouldn't be coaching our leagues Champions right now! I don't change my
coaching tactics one bit between how I deal with my 13 boys and my 2 girls. I
am coaching HOCKEY PLAYERS, period. I also play for a Women's Travel Team
here and it makes absolutely no difference to me if a man or a woman coaches,
I just want the best and the most experienced coach for the job and in a
situation like ours (hockey is still new and growing here), I can't imagine
any woman being more experienced than a man to coach adult players like us.
BUT if there is not a male Coach out there that wants the job then I have no
problem having a female coach. I have 2 male Coaches on the 2 all male teams
that I play and Thank God, they deal with me just like every other male
player, I wouldn't want it any other way. I see myself as a Hockey Player
first and as a woman who happens to play hockey second.
Jackie - #22 - She Shoooooooots, She Scooooooores!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:55:58 -0500
From: "Lucianne Sarlo"
Subject: Media Coverage
In the "non-hockey hotbed" of Tampa (practically a direct quote from Rob
Zamuner), women's hockey is starting to get a little more coverage. FOX did
a 3 minute feature on our team last summer, and there was an article in the
Tampa paper about women's hockey (although they didn't know about our team,
and we weren't included). The St Pete paper is coming out to photograph our
game this Sunday, and hopefully we'll get some follow-up coverage after our
trip to Atlanta for the Atlanta Thrashers Tournament next weekend.
I can only imagine it growing from here...
Lucianne Sarlo
#27
Tampa Bay Blades
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 11:57:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
Subject: RE: Don Cherry / Miller
CG> Yeah that's true about Don Cherry. He's been very good for the womens
CG> game. Very supportive. As have many of us. And the CBC hasn't censored
CG> him yet. Good thing.
No one is asking for censorship... just maybe a little forethought about
about sportsmanship.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:58:49 -0800
From: Liz Johnson
Subject: Re: More aftermath
Nope, I wouldn't move my bag and I would hope no one would move their bag
away from me if they found out I was straight or gay.
My point though was that I don't 'know' whose straight/gay on my team any
more than a guy 'knows' whose straight/gay on his team. Actually, my point
is that it shouldn't matter, we're there becasue we love hockey, nothing
else should matter.
Liz...stepping down from her soap box
#17
>The point here is that you haven't given it much thought. And if you knew,
>would you move your hockey bag to the other side of the room? Probably not.
>
>Debbie
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:06:38 -0500
From: Richard Johnston
Subject: Goalie Equipment
Just wanted to see if anyone (goalie) has purchased Louiseville's Female pads,
pants, gloves,
or chest protectors. My daughter has outgrown her pads and we're looking to buy
her new
(or used) that protect better and is larger. She needs 31" leg pads and Senior
Size 1 chest
protector. She likes Brown equipment but the Senior sizes do not fit as well.
Any reviews?
She's getting this for her 13th birthday at a cost of me driving my van for its
12th year!
Reply to: email@hidden
Rich Johnston
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:07:02 -0500
From: Cindy Goodman
Subject: Re: re: Miller
I'm not allowed to talk about Miller as per Chug requests. Sorry.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:22:29 -0500
From: Ken
Subject: US TV Coverage
I'm very satisfied with what was shown throughout the States from these
games. CBS, TNT, the CBS Morning Shows, and David Letterman, certainly
covered quite a bit. I have over 8 hours of taped game coverage and
tidbits!! Only thing I missed was the Japan game due to a power failure
here! Come on people, there was no chance of seeing EVERY last minute of
the games! Be happy with what we got! It could of been alot worse if it
were not for all the skiing postponements. Think about it! :-)
WAY TO GO USA!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:29:29 -0500
From: Andria Hunter
Subject: Ontario women's university league all-stars
Here are the Ontario University Assocation (OUA) league
all-stars. Note that the OUA was called the OWIAA before
this year. This is the women's university hockey league
in Ontario.
First All-Star Team:
Forwards Cheryl Pounder (WL), Coley Dosser (UG),
Sue Ann Van Damme (UT)
Defense Stephanie Campbell (UT), Ali MacMillan (UT)
Goaltender Shelley Campbell (UW)
Second All-Star Team:
Forwards Tammy Kerr (UG), Jen Rawson (UT),
Shanley White (YU)
Defense Allyson Fox (YU), Ingrid Gedies (UG)
Goaltender Colette Good (YU)
Andria Hunter
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End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #143
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