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Women-in-Hockey Digest Sunday, February 15 1998 Volume 01 : Number 132
In this issue:
Re: Quotes
Re: USA vs Canada game
Re: CBS Women's Hockey Coverage
looney, goyette mess
Americans deny incident
Re: Americans deny incident
Canada vs U.S....what next?
Shelley Looney - Goyette
Danielle Dube & Shannon Miller/Team Canada
My page
Re: looney, goyette mess
Re: USA vs Canada game
Re: Americans deny incident
Re: Shelley Looney - Goyette
Re: Danielle Dube & Shannon Miller/Team Canada
Re: USA vs Canada game
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:47:15 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Quotes
heres some quotes, all I can come up with:
"When I'm on the ice, I don't think about being a woman. If I start to
care about what people think, I won't be able to do my job."
Manon Rheaume
"In order to achieve greatness or success you must believe in yourself
and your abilities. Your mind is a powerful tool. Respect those who are
around you and learn from them."
Cammie Granato
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:48:15 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: USA vs Canada game
wasn't it 6 unanswered goals?
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:56:29 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: CBS Women's Hockey Coverage
what do you mean by that? Did they show the entire game yesterday, because I
think I spaced out or something during the game, I don't really remember the
2nd period, and I never remember seeing Canada's second goal. so did I miss
something, or did they not show it?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:21:52 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: looney, goyette mess
Ok, I'm confused, everybody is saying that shelley looney said something to
danielle goyette, in the article I read, it said it was Sandra Whyte, so who
was it?
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:42:38 -0800
From: Anne Paulson
Subject: Americans deny incident
From Sunday's New York Times:
... [Shannon] Miller ... also accused the United States' Sandra Whyte of
antagonizing Canada's Danielle Goyette at the end of the game by making
comments about her father, who died last week....
After the handshake line, Goyette and a couple of American players
exchanged words. When the rest of the players left the ice, Miller aired
her unhappiness with Cammi Granato... who later denied that any such
remark about the player's father had been made. "We sent her a sympathy
card last week, and we all signed it," Granato said.
Whyte, through a team spokesman, admitted she called Goyette "a dirty
name" but insisted it had nothing to do with her father. Goyette,
described as upset by one of her teammates, tried to play down the
incident afterward by saying that she hadn't heard what was said.
When I first heard about this alleged incident, I wondered about
misunderstandings, because the acoustics at every ice rink I've
ever been at are atrocious. It's surely possible that the Canadians
misheard Whyte's remarks.
- -- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:32:20 -0400
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: Re: Americans deny incident
Anne Paulson wrote:
>When I first heard about this alleged incident, I wondered about
>misunderstandings, because the acoustics at every ice rink I've
>ever been at are atrocious. It's surely possible that the Canadians
>misheard Whyte's remarks.
I have now been in our rink for 3 days as the tournament director, and have
learned new words. I have seen 15 year old boys sneak into a woman's
locker room and spit into each and every hockey bag. I have had a grown
women demand a kluzy kid be pulled off the ice because he was 25 days too
old for his division. Mis-hear a dirty name or inappropriate comment about
a beloved father who died of Alzheimers? Get real. This game needs to be
cleaned up from the top to the bottom and back up to the top again.
Debbie
***********************************************************
Debbie Minden
email@hidden
215-635-4817
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:31:52 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Canada vs U.S....what next?
....As a transplanted Canadian, it pains me to say this, but the
Americans just looked hungrier in the last 3rd of the game. All the missed
roughing, highsticking, hooking calls, etc. aside, the U.S. girls showed they
were going for broke and depended on the officials to reign them in. The
Canadians reigned themselves in and hoped that finesse would prevail. The
bottom line is that behaviour that doesn't get called a penalty will provide
an opportunity for a goal and did in that game.
I hope Shannon Miller is helping the Canadian girls get in touch with their
"inner thugs", a silver medal is also known as the "Ms. Congeniality" award.
Here's hoping my Canuck grrrls come to the next game prepared with cans of
"Whoop-ass" for putting out "trash" fires!!
Terry Pendergast
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:48:26 -0500
From: Ken
Subject: Shelley Looney - Goyette
>
>> I missed the end of the game. Was this confirmed by third parties? If this
>> is true, not only is it reprehensible conduct
>
>Confirmed by the Canadians. The issue was taken to Cammi Granato, who
>said she'd deal with it. Which I'm sure she has.
Ahhh...everything is always CONFIRMED by the Canadians! I'm sick of this
crap! The "do no wrong" Canadians! Gimme a break! From what I saw, the US
encircled center ice with their sticks in the air basically thanking the
crowd for being behind them. The Canadian players got jerked off by this
then started the talk! Goyette started mouthing off to someone and Shelley
stepped in and basically pushed her away!
Seems to me the Canadians just dislike having the 'wild' Canadian type
celebrations thrown back in their faces by the US! They just can't accept
the fact that they are no longer the 'superpower' of women's hockey. GO
USA!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:56:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Greg GMSMITH Marlene Smith
Subject: Danielle Dube & Shannon Miller/Team Canada
>As for the Canadian goalie situation...I'm sure politics were involved in
the
>goalie situation, but if Danielle Dube was going to challenge being cut,
she
>should have filed an appeal several months ago. Complaining now doesn't
do a
>thing. Statistically, Reddon and Rheaume were better than Dube (though
not by
>much, unlike the American situation where it was obvious in November that
Erin
>Whitten was likely not going to make the team).
I think the main reason why Danielle is raising her concerns now, is the
fact that Sami Jo Small, was taken to Nagano as "technical personnel" and
discreetly designated the #3 goaltender on the team on Feb 6, seemingly
behind everyone's backs.
To me, it seems highly questionable for a Canadian National team, or any
team for that matter, to take a goaltender:
1. who didn't even attend the initial evaluation camps
2. who was literally brought in off the street after Isabelle Minier was
cut
3. who has only been with the national team program for a grand total of
two months
4. who was apparently released from the team October 27th, a full month
before Danielle was let go
And now Danielle ends up being the #4 goaltender? Sounds kind of fishy to
me. There has to be something more going on behind the scenes that we
don't know about, and after some of the bad press the team/coaching staff
has been getting here in Vancouver, I wouldn't doubt it. (see particularly
the two page Feb 8, 1998 article in the Province)
And while I think stats can tell you something, they don't tell the whole
story. A prime example of this is Jayna Hefford, the leading scorer of
Team Canada in exhibition play. She got her first point of the Olympics
against USA.
Past experience, especially for goaltenders, must count for something too.
Can anyone who watched the 1996 Pacific Rim Final against the U.S.
honestly doubt that Danielle isn't the #1 goaltender in Canada? She
literally stood on her head and stole that game for them, and play so well
throughout that whole tournament.
I think anyone who is knowledgable about goaltenders will tell you:
technically, Danielle is head and shoulders above both Reddon and Rheaume,
both of whom have looked mediocre at best at Nagano. Rheaume let in two
very weak goals against Finland, and as we saw in the US game Reddon's
rebound control leaves much to be desired. Danielle's also younger (22),
and, at one point, seemed poised to be a fixture on Team Canada for the
next decade.
Danielle's technical ability coupled with her demonstrated ability to
elevate her play in big game situations, I think, is more telling than
simple statistical numbers. Danielle was also apparently nursing a broken
collar bone during evaluations after taking a high Hayley Wickenheiser
slap shot during warm up, which might have also been another factor in her
statistics.
I used to be a huge Team Canada fan.. and a Shannon Miller supporter..
every summer, my daughter regularly attends her hockey school... but after
all this bad press that they've been getting, after all these rumours
swirling around the team regarding personal relationships, after all these
questionable cuts (from what I've seen: Angela James, Tammy Shewchuk, and
Danielle Dube should have easily made that team) I really don't think I
can get behind this team, nor send my daughter nor recommend her hockey
school anymore.
It is really sad: having women's hockey in the Olympics was supposed to be
the spring board in promoting female hockey, particularly at the grass
roots level. Instead you have people here laughing at the caliber of play
and thinking women's hockey is such a joke. I'm beginning to think maybe
it was too soon for women's hockey to be a full-medal sport in the
Olympics.
With all the bad press they've been receiving, instead of having
registrations in female hockey swell after the Olympics, you might
actually see the opposite effect, with parents actually afraid to enroll
their daughters in female hockey. Being a female hockey coach, and
supporter I honestly hope this doesn't happen.. but I think anyone who
read that article in the Province can't at least stop and think twice
about enrolling their daughters in female hockey.
I'm a Canadian, and in all the other events, I'll be cheering for Canada,
but on Tuesday, I'll be cheering for Team USA all the way! Congrats to
the US on their great come back... Great call by Ben Smith to call a time
out to settle his troops down after being down 4-1. That would have been
my TSN turning point of the game.
Greg.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:53:45 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: My page
It kinds sucks now but will get better
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bleachers/4721/cammi.html
Cammi Granato
RULES !!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:20:46 +0000
From: "TeePee Communications"
Subject: Re: looney, goyette mess
On 15 Feb 98 at 13:21, email@hidden wrote:
> Ok, I'm confused, everybody is saying that shelley looney said something to
> danielle goyette, in the article I read, it said it was Sandra Whyte, so who
> was it?
>
I just watched the tape again, the exchange I saw came from Looney to
Goyette as they were leaving the ice.
I dont know if something was said after the show-off circle thing (or
as some gullible people call it - the thank-you to the crowd , ya
right) , but after that it was clearly Looney - the name and number
are quite visible.
There is a Canadian and US player having a "talk" during the circle
thing, but its an overhead shot and the identities are not
discernible, but it looks like the mess started there.
Maybe she (Goyette) did say something first, maybe Whyte said
something back, thats not the main subject here. Trash talk goes on
all the time, but this time it went too far, regardless of who
won/lost, who wins gold/silver and who said it. I guess some people
cant understand this concept.
*********************************************
Tim Pacan - TeePee Communications
Women's Hockey Website:
http://web.idirect.com/~teepee/hockey.htm
*********************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:32:44 -0900
From: Syrilyn Tong
Subject: Re: USA vs Canada game
While I agree that it was a nothing game, and that she may have been
resting Manon, I also think she dealt her team a huge psychological blow.
Here they are on the eve of the biggest game of their lives and Team USA
will be riding a huge emotional wave, while Canada has to dig out of a
psychological hole. I, for one, hope Canada DOES pull itself out, as I'd
like to see the two best teams in the world at their finest, in front of
the eyes of the world.
Syrilyn Tong
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:45:17 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Americans deny incident
At 10:42 AM -0800 2/15/98, Anne Paulson wrote:
> It's surely possible that the Canadians
> misheard Whyte's remarks.
It's a lot more possible that this was dealt with privately and NEITHER
team wants this to be what's remembered coming out of this olympics...
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:56:19 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Shelley Looney - Goyette
At 12:48 PM -0800 2/15/98, Ken wrote:
> Ahhh...everything is always CONFIRMED by the Canadians! I'm sick of this
> crap! The "do no wrong" Canadians! Gimme a break!
Hey, it's not *my* fault the Canadians are willing to go on camera and
explain what happened while CBS is off doing a retrospective of famous
American Olympic athlete's grandmother's quilts.
You can be unhappy all you want, but both Shannon Miller and Goyette
have come on CBC TV for live interviews, and both have confirmed there
was a problem. And CBC TV had the impromptu meeting on the ice between
Miller and Cammi Granato as it happened, as well as a camera on Guyotte
as it happened, her reaction to the statement and her skating off
almost smashing her stick on the boards.
If the U.S. TV isn't covering it, that doesn't mean it's not there. It
means, as usual, taht U.S. TV is bogus.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:52:11 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: Danielle Dube & Shannon Miller/Team Canada
At 12:56 PM -0800 2/15/98, Greg GMSMITH Marlene Smith wrote:
> Past experience, especially for goaltenders, must count for something too.
Yes, but not everything.
> Can anyone who watched the 1996 Pacific Rim Final against the U.S.
> honestly doubt that Danielle isn't the #1 goaltender in Canada?
And anyone who watched the World Cup for men's would agree that Mike
Richter was the #1 goalie for the U.S. -- only if you watch Richter
(and VanBeezer, too) in the NHL this year, he's not nearly as strong or
consistent.
Point is -- it's not 1996 any more. What was then might not be now.
Yes, experience counts for a lot, but so does *current* performance.
Things change. Players mature (and sometimes, drop off), or simply
slump.
That's what makes coaching and GM work such a challenge. Just because
someone was very good in 1996 doesn't mean she kept that caliber of
play up, or that others didn't catch her.
> every summer, my daughter regularly attends her hockey school... but after
> all this bad press that they've been getting,
My question, though, is this: how much of this criticism is valid? And
how much of it is because Canadians found out the hard way the gold in
Nagano wasn't a cakewalk, and are therefore looking for a scapegoat?
Face it -- the U.S. Women are a lot better than expected, and the two
teams are a lot closer matched. And I simply think Canadians are having
trouble accepting that -- and therefore, there has to be some *reason*
why Canada's group isn't as good as it is (as opposed to U.S. being
better than it "should" be). And that's too bad, because, frankly,
that's a very American attitude.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:43:50 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Re: USA vs Canada game
At 2:32 PM -0800 2/15/98, Syrilyn Tong wrote:
> While I agree that it was a nothing game, and that she may have been
> resting Manon, I also think she dealt her team a huge psychological blow.
I don't think the coach did. I think the team did it to itself, and
frankly, swapping goalies at that point wasn't going to solve the
problem, since the goalie wasn't the problem. The team collapsed in
front of her, and swapping goalies might make the galie feel better,
but at this point in the tourney, that's the least of their problems.
I honestly don't think Shannon Miller could have done would have
stopped that collapse, and nothing she did caused it. I also don't
believe that at this point, the Canada team is fragile enough that one
bad period like that's going to cause them to tuck tail and go home. My
guess is all it did was cause them to get pissed at themselves.
- --
Chuq Von Rospach (Hockey fan? )
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
+
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #132
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