Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 563
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Gender Equity - Brown's case
by Anne Paulson
2) Looking for another past TEAM USA member
by email@hidden
3) no ice time?
by email@hidden (Ta, Jacqueline)
4) Re: no ice time?
by Jessica Yeo
5) Re: no ice time?
by Shannon Perkins
6) Re: no ice time?
by Laurie Solgon
7) Re: no ice time?
by email@hidden (MS BROOKE E KROGLE)
8) Re: no ice time?
by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
9) Re: no ice time?
by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
10) Re: no ice time?
by email@hidden
11) Re: no ice time?
by Alicia L Roberts
12) Re: no ice time?
by Michelle Langley
13) Re: no ice time?
by Edward N Saunders
14) Re: Gender Equity - Brown's case
by email@hidden
15) Re: no ice time?
by email@hidden
16) [Fwd: Re: SHE SHE SHE]
by Lea Sanford
17) Re: no ice time?
by email@hidden
18) Re: [Fwd: Re: SHE SHE SHE]
by email@hidden
19)
by Paula Hunt
20) Re: 1997 Women's Hockey Championships
by Paula Hunt
21) Re: no ice time?
by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
22) Re: no ice time?
by "Sheila & Colleen"
23) Re: no ice time?
by "Sheila & Colleen"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:03:02 -0700
From: Anne Paulson
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Gender Equity - Brown's case
Message-ID:
> "If your daughter won't go out for basketball, my son cannot play
> football." That's the flawed logic accepted by the U.S. Supreme
> Court in the well-known gender-equity case against Brown
> University, according to Pete du Pont, editor of this on-line
> magazine and a former Republican Governor of Delaware.
They keep saying that, but it doesn't fit with the facts of the case.
I was a varsity athlete at Brown, so I've been following the legal case with
interest. Brown, perenially lacking money, tried to cut two men's and two
women's varsity teams. The women on one of the teams sued, saying that
although there are about equal numbers of male and female undergraduates
at Brown, there were already fewer varsity spots for women than for men
(either because there were more men's varsity teams, or the men's varsity
teams were bigger, or both-- I forget the exact facts) so Brown should have
only cut mens' teams. Eventually the women prevailed.
In this case, it was clear that the women whose teams were being eliminated
wanted those teams and wanted to play on them. There was no issue of Brown
offering teams for women that no women wanted. It wasn't a matter of Brown
trying to entice female athletes to play while stifling opportunities for
men. The conservatives can rant and rave all they want, but they should at
least get the facts straight.
-- Anne Paulson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 14:19:53 -0600
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Looking for another past TEAM USA member
Message-ID:
I'm now on the search for Beth Beagan, past member of Team USA.
Anyone know of her whereabouts??? Anyone on UNH team - please
pass this on to Karen as she might know. Thanks much. Dorene
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 97 14:52:00 MDT
From: email@hidden (Ta, Jacqueline)
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: no ice time?
Message-ID:
Does anyone understand why there is such a lack of rinks in the U.S.?
Except in Minnesota, the three major cities I have been in (Chicago,
Denver, L.A.) seem to suffer from a severe lack of ice rinks. When I was
in Chicago, I had to routinely drive 45 minutes to over an hour to reach
a rink, and then only get an hour of ice time. In Denver, our team could
only get one hour of practice time every two weeks. It's hard too
because there is very little drop-in hockey at times that normal people
can get to. I am quite willing to play at 11pm on a Friday night, but
there's no way I could get out of work to play hockey during lunch time
(we don't have 2-hour lunches around here).
I don't mean to whine about this. I'm just curious whether anyone else
feels this is a problem. I would think that there would be plenty of
people who could use up the extra ice time if an extra rink or two were
built. Our leagues are always completely full.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:45:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jessica Yeo
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
When I lived in Canada the rink was 5 minutes away. When my dad was
transferred to the US, the closest rink in about 50 minutes away, in
Bowling Green. The closest girls teams, which I found this year, are
in Ann Arbor, 1:45 mins away, and in Lincoln Park, Michigan, which can
be over two hours with construction.
---"Ta, Jacqueline" wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone understand why there is such a lack of rinks in the U.S.?
>
> Except in Minnesota, the three major cities I have been in (Chicago,
> Denver, L.A.) seem to suffer from a severe lack of ice rinks. When
I was
> in Chicago, I had to routinely drive 45 minutes to over an hour to
reach
> a rink, and then only get an hour of ice time. In Denver, our team
could
> only get one hour of practice time every two weeks. It's hard too
> because there is very little drop-in hockey at times that normal
people
> can get to. I am quite willing to play at 11pm on a Friday night,
but
> there's no way I could get out of work to play hockey during lunch
time
> (we don't have 2-hour lunches around here).
>
> I don't mean to whine about this. I'm just curious whether anyone
else
> feels this is a problem. I would think that there would be plenty
of
> people who could use up the extra ice time if an extra rink or two
were
> built. Our leagues are always completely full.
>
> Jacqueline
>
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 18:09:07 -0400
From: Shannon Perkins
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
At 01:58 PM 5/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone understand why there is such a lack of rinks in the U.S.?
>
>Except in Minnesota, the three major cities I have been in (Chicago,
>Denver, L.A.) seem to suffer from a severe lack of ice rinks. When I was
>in Chicago, I had to routinely drive 45 minutes to over an hour to reach
>a rink, and then only get an hour of ice time. In Denver, our team could
>only get one hour of practice time every two weeks. It's hard too
>because there is very little drop-in hockey at times that normal people
>can get to. I am quite willing to play at 11pm on a Friday night, but
>there's no way I could get out of work to play hockey during lunch time
>(we don't have 2-hour lunches around here).
>
>I don't mean to whine about this. I'm just curious whether anyone else
>feels this is a problem. I would think that there would be plenty of
>people who could use up the extra ice time if an extra rink or two were
>built. Our leagues are always completely full.
>
>Jacqueline
>
Hi,
We have a lot of ice rinks here in the U.P. of Michigan, but summer ice
time is a real problem. There's one rink that has year-round ice, Michigan
Tech University's rink. And, since they're a university rink and the only
rink around here, they tend to be a bit on the expensive side. Plus, with
only one rink and so many people who want to use it(hockey school, private
rentals, team rentals, ect.)it's hard to get the ice when you want it.
Shannon Perkins-#1 K-Wings
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Shannon "Dead Head" Perkins - #1 K-Wings
email@hidden
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/4576
"Playing goal is like being shot at."
- Jaques Plante
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 15:36:51 -0700 (MST)
From: Laurie Solgon
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
I have spoken with many people in the Phoenix area. I live in Tucson.
Everytime they try to get a new rink approved, the residents in the
neighborhood vote it down. Seems they think or have been told that the
rink would attract an "undesirable element". But if they only know what
we paid for our equipment, they would see that it's just not the case.
Tucson went for 10 years without a rink. The old one had to be torn down
because of asbestos. I think that more PR has to be done to show how
organized youth activities help keep kids from doing the gang thing, and
how adults can benefit from the fitness and the fun. As summer comes,
it'll get hot and what better place to be comfortable than in a nice cool
rink.
Laurie Solgon (Hockey mom)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gypsy __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____
email@hidden /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ /
/ / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 8 May 1997, Ta, Jacqueline wrote:
>
> Does anyone understand why there is such a lack of rinks in the U.S.?
>
> Except in Minnesota, the three major cities I have been in (Chicago,
> Denver, L.A.) seem to suffer from a severe lack of ice rinks. When I was
> in Chicago, I had to routinely drive 45 minutes to over an hour to reach
> a rink, and then only get an hour of ice time. In Denver, our team could
> only get one hour of practice time every two weeks. It's hard too
> because there is very little drop-in hockey at times that normal people
> can get to. I am quite willing to play at 11pm on a Friday night, but
> there's no way I could get out of work to play hockey during lunch time
> (we don't have 2-hour lunches around here).
>
> I don't mean to whine about this. I'm just curious whether anyone else
> feels this is a problem. I would think that there would be plenty of
> people who could use up the extra ice time if an extra rink or two were
> built. Our leagues are always completely full.
>
> Jacqueline
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:51:48, -0500
From: email@hidden (MS BROOKE E KROGLE)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
I too live very far from any ice rinks. I'm in Idaho, so of course
the closest rink in the state is way down in Boise (I'm in the
panhandle). I'm really close to the Washington state border,
and even they have few rinks. The closest is in Spokane, and
that's about an hour's drive on the freeway.
-Brooke-
ps: if anyone on this mailing list is in my area, give me an email,
we're looking for more woman players.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:11:20 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
To: women-in-hockey@plaidworks.com
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
>Does anyone understand why there is such a lack of rinks in the U.S.?
>
In the Philadelphia area there would be enough ice time if people would
take advantage of what was available. The problem here as I see it, is the
lack of desire to play at odd times. No, not lunch time, but traditional
hockey times like 5 AM or 1 AM. If people could see their way clear to
pushing themselves a little, I think there would be more than enough time.
I am a board member at our rink, and the parents, both hockey and figure
skating, complain that their kids don't want to get up and skate before
school. They might not smell great and their hair wouldn't be perfect.
(That's why there are wash cloths, deodorant, brushes, and hairdryers.)
High school juniors and senior don't go to bed before midnight. The little
ones can do a 5 AM practice once on a weekend. I don't understand why
people who can watch Conan can't skate til 2 AM. As well, we have at least
9 year round ice pads (some doubles, some singles) in a 25 mile radius of
my house and at least 5 pads are in financial trouble. The cost of running
a rink is astronomical - $58,000 for a Zam, $150,000 boards, $10,000 per
month for electricity. Need I say more. The solution is 1. move to
Philly, 2. ride the wave of the 1998 Olympics and pick up money from your
municipalities, Nike, Coke, Pepsi (a lot of the big companies will shunt
monies into local sports) etc. to start a rink or two, and then work at
running it well.
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:14:55 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
>I have spoken with many people in the Phoenix area. I live in Tucson.
>Everytime they try to get a new rink approved, the residents in the
>neighborhood vote it down. Seems they think or have been told that the
>rink would attract an "undesirable element". But if they only know what
>we paid for our equipment, they would see that it's just not the case.
>Tucson went for 10 years without a rink. The old one had to be torn down
>because of asbestos. I think that more PR has to be done to show how
>organized youth activities help keep kids from doing the gang thing, and
>how adults can benefit from the fitness and the fun. As summer comes,
>it'll get hot and what better place to be comfortable than in a nice cool
>rink.
>
>Laurie Solgon (Hockey mom)
>
Nike and the Flyers were supposed to be working on a plrogram for in-line
hockey. I tried to contact them for some help with our new program, but
didn't hear a peep. Try contacting your closest pro team and see what
happens.
Debbie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:14:23 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
Believe me, I know how you feel! I usually have to drive 3 1/2 hours to
play!
Jeanne
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:48:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alicia L Roberts
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
Tell me about it! For five years my parents drove me to play at a rink 3
hours away from home so I could play on a girls' team. I could have
played with the boys at home but then I don't think I would be playing
college hockey right now. I have wanted to get a girls' team started in
the Muskegon, MI, area for years but there just isn't the ice time. Even
the youth leagues that already exist have to drive to Grand Rapids, at
least a 45 minute drive.
Alicia Roberts
UNH Wildcats #31
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 19:47:37 -0400
From: Michelle Langley
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID: <33726619.741E@geocities.com>
I am new to the list and I just read the message about having no ice
time. I love to get my 2 cents in, so here it is...I feel this problem.
I live in the fastest growing city(Howell) in the fastest growing county
(Livingston) in Michigan. We only have one ice rink for the Livingston
County Hockey League. I can not even put my name on the waiting list
because it is 4 years long. By then I will be in college. The reason for
the long wait is a high demand for teams. These teams cannot exist
because there is no ice time inwhich they can practice. This is a major
problem that needs to be dealt with soon. --Michelle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:49:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edward N Saunders
To: email@hidden
Cc: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
The reason why there is a shortage of rinks fas many origins.
1)energy crisis of late 1970's.
2)Sharp increases in cost of liability insurance in early '80's.
3)it is very tough to make a profit.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:58:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Gender Equity - Brown's case
Message-ID:
There's also the fact that a great deal of this opposition comes from
football coaches, who dread having some of their 90-odd scholarships taken
away to fund *anything* else. I've never understood why the top college
programs have to have so many players when the NFL makes do with a mere 40 or
so, but then again, I still don't know why big time college football and
basketball don't drop the pretense of educating their players and simply
declare themselves to be their sports' equivalents of the Sally League and
the AHL.
I'm also thoroughly sick of every gender equity case on the college level
being twisted to sounding The Death Knell of Single Sex Education, or the
Death Knell of Sports for Real Women, or Oh, the Poor Little Dears Don't
Really WANT Sports, They're Just Being Manipulated. That was what fried me
the most, reading that Brown coeds really didn't like sports, and it was just
a few malcontents who were stirring up trouble. It was eerily like reading
Southern racists in the 60's saying that their nigeras were fine, and it was
only troublemaking troublemakers from up north who were making problems.
I'm with the gymnasts who filed the lawsuit. Heck, I would have offered them
succor at my alma mater, Smith, except that I don't think we *have* a
gymnastics team. Or much of anything else decent once you get past the crew
team....:)
Lisa Evans
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:04:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
Very simple: we lack the hockey playing tradition, and without the year
round cold climate of northern Canada, without the tradition, you aren't
going to see many folks shelling out money in the summer to skate. And
unless you're near an NHL or established AHL/IHL city, you won't see much
demand for a rink. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, and the only reason there
are *any* rinks in the South Hills besides Mount Lebanon High and Rostraver
Gardens is because of Mario Lemieux's popularity...and even though MLH had a
hockey team back in the 70's, I seem to recall that Le Magnifique built them
a new rink so he could skate in the summer....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 20:45:49 -0500
From: Lea Sanford
To: Hockey List
Subject: [Fwd: Re: SHE SHE SHE]
Message-ID:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------16EB2E0E889
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I tried sending this privately but my server keeps getting rejected.
Lea
--
email@hidden
*********
"Forget conventionalisms; forget what the world will say, whether you
are in your place or out of your place; think your best thoughts, speak
your best words, do your best works, looking [only] to you own
conscience for approval." --- Susan B. Anthony, 1863
--------------16EB2E0E889
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-ID:
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 22:12:17 -0500
From: Lea Sanford
Reply-To: email@hidden
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Jessica Yeo
Subject: Re: SHE SHE SHE
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jessica Yeo wrote:
>
> Ok I know it should be she. After 5 messages, I'll make sure that next
> time I write a poem I use she, and not he.!!
>
I liked your poem, and didn't care that you used "he". I don't think it
matters very much. Remember, women in command are addressed as *sir*.
I am an engineer and get addressed as he and him all the time. It makes
me feel like people forget I am a woman - and are looking at me only as
an employee.
Don't let the feminists get you down.
Lea
--
email@hidden
*********
"Forget conventionalisms; forget what the world will say, whether you
are in your place or out of your place; think your best thoughts, speak
your best words, do your best works, looking [only] to you own
conscience for approval." --- Susan B. Anthony, 1863
--------------16EB2E0E889--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:18:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
No ice times and bad ice times....I agree and long drives to rinks where you
can get ice times.
I live near Concord NH and there is one public rink in Concord, two in
Manchester 15 min away and then a handful of others and hour away.... and
still it is difficult to find ice time... there are many Colleges, high
schools, and local teams trying to use the same ice.
However according to several local news paper reports there is hope on the
horizon for NH skaters.... 2 areas Hooksett and Salem/Derry have dual surface
rinks in the works/ planning stages, and just over the border into Mass,
Tyngsboro is putting in a third surface.
Maybe this will free up some good ice times especially for women skaters who
seem to get the left over slots. And with any luck there will be more womens
teams and leagues developing for all ages.
Hopefully other areas in New England and the US have plans for more rinks as
well....
Michelle the Hockeychck.
If could play hockey every day I would
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:41:47 -0700
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: SHE SHE SHE]
Message-ID:
just because we wondered why she used he instead of she doesn't mean that we are
feminists....it was just a question. I'm sure none of use meant it in a bad way
we were just asking.
Katie :)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 23:13:12 -0400
From: Paula Hunt
To: email@hidden
Message-ID:
take me off your mailing list asap: email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 23:14:25 -0400
From: Paula Hunt
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: 1997 Women's Hockey Championships
Message-ID:
At 03:44 PM 5/4/97 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 2 May 1997, Lynn Witkowski wrote:
>
>> No body checking is already a rule for women's hockey and it is
>> international. What you saw in the World Championships, was a referee
>> allowing contact.
>> Lynn
>>
>Lynn
>
>Check "no pun intended" out the video from the IIHF on body contact. It is
>excellent and gives cleAr definitions of body contact and checking. Body
>contact is allowed as long as the intent was not to separate the player
>from the puck. It is allowed when players are establishing body position.
>the video is an excellent buy for $20 canadian.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>George Boccanfuso Voice (519) 542 7751
ext 237
>Professor, Industrial Hygiene Fax (519) 542 0991
>Lambton College, Sarnia Ontario Canada
>
>"and the only people I fear are those who never have any doubts" - Billy Joel
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:26:16 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
I could have
>played with the boys at home but then I don't think I would be playing
>college hockey right now.
>Alicia Roberts
>UNH Wildcats #31
Alicia,
I have a 10 year old girl who plays with the boys, and sometimes the girls.
We have to start making decisions about where she goes in the next couple
of years. Why do you think you would not be playing college hockey now had
you stayed with the boys. Thanks for your input.
Debbie.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 01:11:17 -0700
From: "Sheila & Colleen"
To:
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
> Very simple: we lack the hockey playing tradition, and without the year
> round cold climate of northern Canada, without the tradition, you aren't
> going to see many folks shelling out money in the summer to skate.
I do agree that having hockey as our unofficial national sport, (lacrosse
being the official sport), does encourage the growth of hockey in Canada.
However, temperature does not to come into play. Contrary to a small
belief, Canadians do not live in igloos with an ice rink in their back
yard. I live in Vancouver, and the temperature forcast for this weekend is
73 F, whereas in Providence, Rhode Island the forecasted temperature is 63
F. We play hockey all year round, everywhere in Canada, including places
like Toronto where the average summer temp. is in the 80's, never mind the
high humidity. A quick look at an atlas will show that there are a number
of Canadian cities, (our largest), that are at a lower latitude than the
northern most border of the lower 48 states.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 01:17:37 -0700
From: "Sheila & Colleen"
To:
Subject: Re: no ice time?
Message-ID:
> Very simple: we lack the hockey playing tradition, and without the year
> round cold climate of northern Canada, without the tradition, you aren't
> going to see many folks shelling out money in the summer to skate.
I do agree that having hockey as our unofficial national sport, (lacrosse
being the official sport), does encourage the growth of hockey in Canada.
However, temperature does not to come into play. Contrary to a small
belief, Canadians do not live in igloos with an ice rink in their back
yard. I live in Vancouver, and the temperature forcast for this weekend is
73 F, whereas in Providence, Rhode Island the forecasted temperature is 63
F. We play hockey all year round, everywhere in Canada, including places
like Toronto where the average summer temp. is in the 80's, never mind the
high humidity. A quick look at an atlas will show that there are a number
of Canadian cities, (our largest), that are at a lower latitude than the
northern-most border of the lower 48 states.
PS. Women get lousy ice times here as well.
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 563
*********************************