Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 539
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 538
by email@hidden
2) Re: Nationals -Reply
by email@hidden
3) Manon
by Grass Valley League Office
4) KY hockey
by email@hidden
5) Re: KY hockey
by email@hidden
6) Re: Re[2]: mud wrestling vs. checking
by email@hidden
7) Re: women in the NHL
by email@hidden
8) Re: Cammi Granato
by email@hidden
9) Re: Cammi Granato
by Chuck Collins
10) Re: Cammi Granato
by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
11) rules
by email@hidden
12) Skating with the pros
by email@hidden
13) Re: rules
by "Marcia E Blake"
14) RE: Cammi Granato
by Mary Wood
15) Re[4]: mud wrestling vs. checking
by Jan de Regt
16) Need Boston-based C player for Montreal Tournament next week
by Val Schmitt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 11:10:01 PST
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 538
Message-ID:
_________________________________________________________
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Cammi Granato
>I saw the same game Peggy did, and I beg to disagree - this was
a charity game that involved NHLers, child actors from the Mighty
Ducks movies, and two female goalies (Rheaume and Whitten).
Cammi Granato was taking it much more seriously than the other
players, yes, but saying that because she was able to keep up in
a game that included several adolescents she could keep in an
NHL game is like saying that because the local high school team
looks good in the state finals, they could take on a pro team and
win.
________________________________________________________
I want to make it clear, I was comparing Cammi's skating ability
on the ice to those of her brother and Gretzky and the other NHL
players, not to the celebrity players or the actors that were
participating, who were mediocre at best. She showed a lot of
speed and agility when one on one with the NHL players and that
was all I was commenting about.
What I was criticizing was the comment about women not being fast
enough. There are women playing on the elite level who can out
skate many of the NHL players and have the speed to "keep up"
with them. Speed is not the only qualifier to make it to the
NHL.
_______________________________________________________
also...
> From: email@hidden
> Subject: Re: Cammi Granato
> Remember, Cammi declined a contract with *roller hockey* a few
years ago, and roller hockey teams are largely stocked with
Central and Colonial League players, not even AHLers. If she
didn't think she could play in the RHI, she was absolutely right
to turn the Isles down.
________________________________________________________
I also think this is a highly prejudicial remark assuming that
Cammi felt herself "not good enough". Cammi choose not to play
in the RHI, just as many ice hockey players refuse to play roller
hockey for one reason or another. It is a different game and is
not a matter of good enough, rather than desire.
She also declined a tryout with the Detroit Red Wings a few years
ago. I applaud her integrity to be an outstanding example for
women's hockey instead of becoming a member of a circus freak
show.
I agree with the comments made by Sherwin Zaban:
________________________________________________________
Women' s hockey is not at that level yet. I think on the whole
women hockey players exhibit more overall skill than do their
counterparts in basketball. The sport is growing and as it does
so will the abilities of the athletes. Too many of the older
women are the products of the men's game and that is why you
don't see the skill. Watch the younger players coming up and you
will be surprised at the skating, passing and shooting ability
these women possess.
________________________________________________________
We need to appreciate the women's game for what it is and as time
and opportunity progresses, we will see improvements in all
areas. The real point is women need a place to showcase their
talents, to act as roll models for young girls and get exposure
to their game. These are something that have been long afforded
to the men's game and our turn is coming.
Just as women's basketball is drawing decent audiences, so will
women's hockey. First we gain acceptance, then support, and
finally respect.
Peggy Cunha
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:07:55 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Nationals -Reply
Message-ID:
Do not assume that the Challengers are from Wisconsin. The team is based
in Madison, however the players may not be from Wisconsin. They recruit
players from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:36:13 -0700
From: Grass Valley League Office
To: email@hidden
Subject: Manon
Message-ID:
Check out this picture:
http://www.oro.net/~rhiglo/RHI/Photos/MANON600.jpg
Gary King
--
Grass Valley League Office - Roller Hockey International
13070 Fawn Hill Dr., Grass Valley, CA 95945
Tel: 916-272-7825 FAX: 916-272-7858 mailto:email@hidden
URL: http://www.rollerhockey.com
Standings & Media Releases: http://www.oro.net/~rhiglo/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:08:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: KY hockey
Message-ID:
Does anyone know of any women's teams in or around Kentucky? (Louisville,
Lexington, Covington, Cinci, Indy, etc.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: KY hockey
Message-ID:
Yes! We have a women's team here in Cincinnati, email me for details.
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:00:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
Subject: Re: Re[2]: mud wrestling vs. checking
Message-ID:
re: Jan.De.Regt:
Are the rules in Women's Basketball, Women's Softball, Women's Soccer,
Women's Swimming, Women's Diving, Women's Volleyball different from the men's
rules? Are they allowed to do some things that the men aren't? Are they not
allowed to some things men are? I don't know, but somewhere, don't we want
equality?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:20:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
Subject: Re: women in the NHL
Message-ID:
Jan.De.Regt is absolutely correct. The only main difference between men and
women is their actual strength or strength potential. One of the ancient
Greek Philosophers (Socrates or Aristotle maybe) said that. Of course, people
thought he was nuts, but he was right!
I think Cammi has a very good head on her shoulders not to have tried out and
risked potential career ending injury. But if it were me, I think I would
have tried out just to see if I would have made it, then turned down the
offer. I realize there are probably way too many legal restrictions on doing
this...
Jenn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:42:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
Subject: Re: Cammi Granato
Message-ID:
BLACKTHORN said: >If you have ever
played against a former professional player or been on the ice with one, you
would appreciate the elite skill level even the worst player possesses.
Women' s hockey is not at that level yet.<
Please do not take this the wrong way, but how often do normal people with no
connections to the NHL, IHL or AHL get to skate with a former or current
professional player? If you have, more power to you, and can you let me know
where I can go to skate with a pro?
------------------------------
Date: 16 Apr 97 23:45:50 PDT (Wed)
From: Chuck Collins
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Cammi Granato
Message-ID:
Jennej said:
> Please do not take this the wrong way, but how often do normal people with no
> connections to the NHL, IHL or AHL get to skate with a former or current
> professional player? If you have, more power to you, and can you let me know
> where I can go to skate with a pro?
San Jose Ice Center. Redwood City Ice Oasis. Oakland US Ice. Even Vallco
shopping center, in Cupertino, CA.
Actually, of all the major sports, I think the NHL players are the most
approachable. And of all the sports, a game of pick-up hockey will tolerate
a greater range of skills, and is such an accepted form of workout, that
you'll soon find more than a few people who have skated with the pros.
Particularly during the NHL strike, there were lots of pick-up games at
San Jose that included Sharks players. Or more accurately, when the Sharks
were short people for pick up, other people at the rink were included.
Several guys I work with invited Doug Wilson to skate with them, and he
brought several of his friends, at Redwood City Ice Oasis. OK, so one of
them was the president of Sun, but others were just regular guys.
And after the Sharks cut Sergei Makarov, he and Igor Larionov would rent
the ice at Vallco and skate. Apparently they would invite kids who were
hanging out to skate with them near the end of the slot.
Andre Lacroix was a Bobby Hull era pro with the Hawks, Whalers and Flyers,
and he's on the ice all the time at Oakland, since he largely runs their
hockey operations.
And another guy I know was asked to fill in at SF Spiders (IHL) practice
when one of their goalies was out of town.
Somehow I've never heard of just regular folks being invited to play a
game of pickup football with the 49ers, or to take a few swings while Rod
Beck worked on his sinker. Basketball may be a different story, because
there's so much additional culture associated with it. But hockey players
are in general fairly down-to-earth people.
- Chuck Collins
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:07:44 -0400
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Cammi Granato
Message-ID:
>
>Please do not take this the wrong way, but how often do normal people with no
>connections to the NHL, IHL or AHL get to skate with a former or current
>professional player? If you have, more power to you, and can you let me know
>where I can go to skate with a pro?
Come to Philly! The Watson brothers, Rod Brind'amour, Bob Kelly just to
name a few, are regulars at local rinks. One alum, whose name escapes me,
coached for a couple of years at our rink. They are pleasant,
approachable guys, not like the prima donnas of basket ball and football.
(I leave out baseball because, at least around here, they are almost as
visable as the Flyers.)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:49:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: rules
Message-ID:
As far as I know, the only sports with different rules are things like
gymnastics and figure skating. In gymnastics, the emphasis is more on
strength for the men (rings in particular) and grace for the women (balance
beam). In figure skating the women are still supposed to be graceful,
delicate little flowers, which is why they banned unitards for amateur
competition, and why some of the moves (the spins in particular) are
different for women.
Basketball used to have different rules because Senda Berenson misread James
Naismith's original rules and insisted her girls play six on six, with the
backcourt never crossing the tip off circle. I think they still play six on
six in one of the Midwestern states, but everywhere else went to five on five
basketball back in the 70's.
I don't see why women shouldn't be allowed to check, at least open ice
checks; there were some nice, clean body checks in last night's Detroit/St.
Louis game, and they added to an exciting, fast-paced game. Short players
might be at an advantage because of a lower center of gravity. It won't
happen for a while, though.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:54:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Skating with the pros
Message-ID:
Most areas with rinks have summer pro-am leagues where the local pros and
college players stay in shape. The one in my area used to feature Bill
Guerin and Bob Kudelski, plus a good number of the local AHLers who stayed in
the area over the summer. I know there's a summer league in the Tampa Bay
area where most of the Bolts skate, and the Rangers outright own a public
rink in Rye, New York.
I'd ask the local rink manager if there is such a league, then check the
rosters. They may not let you play, but you can at least watch, and maybe
the players will let you try a game.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 08:05:38 -0600
From: "Marcia E Blake"
To: ,
Subject: Re: rules
Message-ID:
"I think they still play six on six in one of the Midwestern states,
but everywhere else went to five on five basketball back in the 70's."
Iowa may have been the last to play 6-on-6 -- They changed to 5-on-5
10 years ago. Many of my friends were the pioneers of collegiate
basketball and benefited from the skills developed by being a
"specialist" in high school. Unfortunately, those who went on to play
at the collegiate level were forwards. Those of us who were guards
didn't practice shooting. The skills I developed as a post guard in
Iowa (closest thing to a goalie) have helped me on the ice.
25 years ago in Iowa in many towns, on every Friday and Saturday night
everyone headed to the school to watch both the girls' and boys'
varsity teams compete. If you did not have your seat by 1/2 hr before
the girls' game -- you might not had been able to watch the games that
night.
The contrast to what I have learned playing hockey and working on
gender equity issues in Minnesota over the past 5 years astounds me.
We didn't know enough to ask for what we wanted and needed as
athletes. We settled for what we were given.
It is so exciting that we can help the girls' who play or want to
participate in athletics now how to ask and get what they need.
MB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:25:43 -0400
From: Mary Wood
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: Cammi Granato
Message-ID:
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4B11.54A10FE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Capitals Alumni team plays benefit games against teams composed of =
your average Joes (normal people with no connections) around here (for =
example, they played the Maryland Firefighters to benefit Children's =
hospital) and our Head Coach (Nelson Burton) is a former pro, and he =
does play pickup hockey, too. Come to the Gardens Ice House in Laurel =
and you could possibly end up playing pickup hockey with a former pro!=20
Mary Wood
Chesapeake Bay Lightning
----------
From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden[SMTP:email@hidden]
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 1997 7:15 AM
To: Subscribers to
Subject: Re: Cammi Granato
>
>Please do not take this the wrong way, but how often do normal people =
with no
>connections to the NHL, IHL or AHL get to skate with a former or =
current
>professional player? If you have, more power to you, and can you let me =
know
>where I can go to skate with a pro?
Come to Philly! The Watson brothers, Rod Brind'amour, Bob Kelly just =
to
name a few, are regulars at local rinks. One alum, whose name escapes =
me,
coached for a couple of years at our rink. They are pleasant,
approachable guys, not like the prima donnas of basket ball and =
football.
(I leave out baseball because, at least around here, they are almost as
visable as the Flyers.)
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------------------------------
Date: 17 Apr 1997 09:59:05 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[4]: mud wrestling vs. checking
I was the only girl in my family. Now I work in a field heavily
dominated by men; often I was the only girl in my classes from high
school through college, and it continues into my job everyday - I am
still often the only technical woman in the room today. Believe me, I
am all for equality.
What I don't understand is why we should all jump on the band wagon to
change the rules "just because that's the way men play the game!"
That's not a well thought out action, that's an unthinking, knee-jerk
REaction, and decisions made that way most often turn out to be poor
ones. What would be gained by adding checking, what would be lost?
There is a very good argument made that a lot of skill and finesse
falls by the wayside in a checking game, and I think that would be a
loss to women's hockey, not a gain.
I think that what we all want is for women's hockey to be taken as
seriously as men's hockey. We want girls and women everywhere, at all
levels, to be given equal opportunity to play the game, to have access
to the same level of coaching and referees that boys and men are...
THAT will be equality!
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: mud wrestling vs. checking
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 4/17/97 12:00 AM
re: Jan.De.Regt:
Are the rules in Women's Basketball, Women's Softball, Women's Soccer,
Women's Swimming, Women's Diving, Women's Volleyball different from the men's
rules? Are they allowed to do some things that the men aren't? Are they not
allowed to some things men are? I don't know, but somewhere, don't we want
equality?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:34:02 -0400
From: Val Schmitt
To: email@hidden
Subject: Need Boston-based C player for Montreal Tournament next week
Message-ID:
Hi,
Short notice, but is there a C-level player from Boston that would be
available next week to go to Montreal for a tournament? We leave
Thursday morning (4/24) from Marlboro, then return Sunday night. Cost is
around $200 including transportation, hotel, breakfasts/lunches and at
least 3 games. We just lost 2 people and would really like to have a
full team!
Let me know if you'd be interested!
--Val
day phone: 617-270-8503
=================================================================
Val Schmitt http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9687
play: email@hidden work: email@hidden
** Nighthawks Ice Hockey C Team #22 ** Go SJ Sharks! **
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 539
*********************************