Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 415
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
by "HARRIS, zharris"
2) Re: Re:Manon
by email@hidden
3) Re: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
4) Re:
by email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
5) Re: Re:Manon
by email@hidden
6) Re: Fitting gloves to small hands
by Lea and Robert Sanford
7) Re: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
by email@hidden (William Cumming (Deerfield Academy))
8) Re: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
by Lynn Witkowski
9) Re: Fitting gloves to small hands
by email@hidden
10) Re: Fitting gloves to small hands
by Lynn Witkowski
11) European Minor Female Teams
by "Tom Chan"
12) Mannon
by email@hidden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 09:34:00 -0800
From: "HARRIS, zharris"
To: email@hidden
Subject: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
Message-ID:
As the mid-season fast approaches most youth travel teams in the United
States are thinking towards Regionals and Nationals.
My question to you is: In the U.S., what do you think about recruiting out
of state for players to beef up one's team so as to compete in Regionals
and Nationals on a youth level? (I am not talking about when a kid goes to
a Prep school to get an education and play hockey too.)
*********
My view, you ask?
To tell you the truth I don't agree with forming "state" teams and/or
recruiting from outside ones' state/area for players just to get a team
strong enough to play for Regionals and Nationals. I think both methods
ruin the development of girls' programs and the growth of girls'/women's
ice hockey. Yes, it is difficult when you don't have enough quality
players to field a team that is competitive -- we've been there but grew
out of that stage -- but the time will come if you start the development at
the lower ranks. The development of a strong girls program entails many
important aspects (including a good developmental program, strong coaching,
association support, enough funds, etc.) but it can be done... over time.
In fact I'd like USA Hockey to make a stand on this so that (like in
Canada) you can't recruit outside your state/area.
Yes, it is all about what makes the kid happiest and doing what is best for
the kid's future. Yeah, maybe the local team is not the perfect place to
play but on the other hand... it helps the growth of girls' hockey when
people support their local program. There are other ways to show-case you
kid if you want to get them expose to the college coaches (if that is the
route you want to take). If there is *no* place to play... then that is
another story. I just don't agree with a team recruiting all the way
across the country to just beef up the team when they already have kids who
want to play on their local team.
Just my 2 cents... what's yours?
Zoe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:32:17 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Re:Manon
Message-ID:
In a message dated 12/15/96 1:03:23 PM, you wrote:
<>
Before I begin my reply to your message, I'd like to say I'm NOT a fan of
hers and if I tripped over her I wouldn't know it.
<>
Personally, I've never heard of any such "benifits" as you put it but, giving
you the benifit of the doubt, maybe she wasn't used to being "mobbed" as you
put it after games or maybe she was tired and needed time to mentally "come
down" from just playing a game.
<>
Did you expect to become roomates with her or something? So, she didn't LOOK
at you; Try, just TRY to put yourself in her position. People are "shoving"
things at you to sign... You can't possibly have a "one on one" conversation
with all of them.
<>
Now, this was the clincher for me that made me write this email... You
should NOT be "hunting her down" or showing up in the locker room. That's
borderline STALKING! You had NO RIGHT to do that and I would have been
pissed too! Forget pissed! I would have been furious.
You sound like an over zealous fan to me... but that's just my opinion. I
wasn't there and maybe she WAS rude to you in SOME way; so I could be way off
and if so I apologize.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:05:26 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
Message-ID:
HARRIS, zharris wrote:
>
> As the mid-season fast approaches most youth travel teams in the United
> States are thinking towards Regionals and Nationals.
>
> My question to you is: In the U.S., what do you think about recruiting out
> of state for players to beef up one's team so as to compete in Regionals
> and Nationals on a youth level? (I am not talking about when a kid goes to
> a Prep school to get an education and play hockey too.)
>
> *********
> My view, you ask?
>
> To tell you the truth I don't agree with forming "state" teams and/or
> recruiting from outside ones' state/area for players just to get a team
> strong enough to play for Regionals and Nationals. I think both methods
> ruin the development of girls' programs and the growth of girls'/women's
> ice hockey. Yes, it is difficult when you don't have enough quality
> players to field a team that is competitive -- we've been there but grew
> out of that stage -- but the time will come if you start the development at
> the lower ranks. The development of a strong girls program entails many
> important aspects (including a good developmental program, strong coaching,
> association support, enough funds, etc.) but it can be done... over time.
>
> In fact I'd like USA Hockey to make a stand on this so that (like in
> Canada) you can't recruit outside your state/area.
>
> Yes, it is all about what makes the kid happiest and doing what is best for
> the kid's future. Yeah, maybe the local team is not the perfect place to
> play but on the other hand... it helps the growth of girls' hockey when
> people support their local program. There are other ways to show-case you
> kid if you want to get them expose to the college coaches (if that is the
> route you want to take). If there is *no* place to play... then that is
> another story. I just don't agree with a team recruiting all the way
> across the country to just beef up the team when they already have kids who
> want to play on their local team.
>
> Just my 2 cents... what's yours?
>
> Zoe
Zoe: The Alaska Firebirds have four players on our Midget team from
outside our local area (Anchorage). Two of the players do not live in
state and to the best of my knowledge do not have any other place real
close to home to play on a girls team. Those players could probably
play closer to home than AK but have played with us for years and would
like to continue doing so. We also have two players that live in state,
but have no all girls local team to play on (Kenai and Fairbanks). Our
program currently welcomes any player that is willing to make the
commitment needed to establish elligability for Nationals. Perhaps in
the not to distant future we will restrict players from outside the
Greater Anchorage area and Kenai Penninsula from opting to play on our
teams. The key to that rule will be whether or not a player lacks
opportunity to play. Those players from outside of our state/city did
us a great service, for without them a number of Division I players from
our program would not be playing where they are today. Again the
differance between having or not having a team!
As to recruiting "all across the country" and USA Hockey making a
"stand," please consider:
1. USA Hockey Annual Guide, Page 62 (Section B, part IV, item b):
"Except for Junior A and Junior B, a team must register in the USA
Hockey Affiliate or District in which 80% or more of its players reside;
otherwise, if 80% of the players do not reside in a single
affiliate/district, it must register in the affiliate or district where
it plays the highest percentage of its home games. Any exception must
be approved by the affiliate/district in which the team normally would
be registered and by the affiliates/districts which comprise the region
(as defined under Section XXIII. Rules and regulations for Regional
Play-Offs) in which the team will be registered. This determination
will be based on the roster of the urrent season adn/or playing
schedule. The regular season shall be September 1 through August 31."
2. Your comment:
"I am not talking about when a kid goes to a Prep school to get an
education and play hockey too."
3. The will of the parents! For example, a player with quality
edcational opportunities in his/her local area, leaves home to play a
higher level of hockey with team X, at a prep or high school elsewhere
in the country.
4. Michigan, Massachusetts and New York. All three states are also
Districts and Regions.
Essentially, our countries hockey make up is complex. Many
opportunities available in one local area/state/district/region may be
completely unavailable elsewhere and vice versa. District and regional
politics can have a substantial impact on what is or is not allowed.
The will of the parents allows them subvert any rules or stipulations
and have their child live in the area where they will play. Regardless
of whether or not moving improves the childs educational opportunity, no
one can really do anything about it. If a player's parents can move him
or her to have them play on a better team, is it fair to restrict
players that don't move to weaker or no teams?
Boys programs have been recruiting Nationally for ages... Girls
programs are now doing it frequently as well. Visit:
http://www.iconn.net/elaydon/bears.htm
and browse a little farther to "About the Conneticut Polar Bears" to get
a little perspective of player movement and prep schools. The story
doesn't really say they recruit, but, with the quality of prep schools
in the area, a lot of programs loose quality student athletes to this
program and others like it! The parents always get the final say!
Thanks, Lyle
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:57:13 -0900
From: email@hidden (Lyle Anderson)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re:
Message-ID:
jason wrote:
>
> RE Coaching
> >From Dave Barrett
> Lyle Anderson my email address jbarrett is correct i use my sons name.Today
> we have a game against
> senior womens AA Team this is our third time we meet this season and so far
> we won 1 and lost 1
> this is just frendly competition and hopefully the girls will be up for the
> game.
> Our biggest problem where we live is the competition, my team do not play
> in a league even though
> most of the girls play High School but the play in 6 different schools and
> that sort of creates a
> problem for me. Each school teaches different and i myself coach a system
> that the schools do not
> use and 5 of the schools do not even coach a system, so as you can see when
> i get the girls on the
> weekends it's like starting all over, another problem is to play against
> girls in there own division the
> nearest team is 4 hours drive so our best competition is playing against
> boys and that gets pretty
> rough at times because you how boys can be we beat one team 8-4 a couple of
> weeks ago and man
> you should off heard the mothers it just made me sick to my stomach to
> listen to them,
> then last week we played a different boys team and i only had 9 skaters
> with 4 mins.remaining in the
> game their coach pulled the goalie when we were serving a pentaly to tie us
> 4-4 and he didn't put his goalie
> back in even though the game was tie he really wanted to win but the score
> stayed 4-4 at the end of
> the game when i shook his hand i said the next time i play you i will have
> a full bench and he then said
> he was not interested in playing us again and again you should of heard the
> mothers.I think it's time
> for those women to smarten up and stop complaining against their own sex
> and be proud that the
> females are beating the males at their own game get with ladies mind you
> not all women are like that
> but there is some ont there and i found them.
> Have a good day
> Dave Barrett coaching Girls Hockey
Dave: Your story is interesting... Last season our Firebird PeeWee A
team competed in the Silver Sticks Regional Tournament that is scheduled
here every year after Christmas. The winners, in the various divisions
of this play off, advance to the North American finals in either Canada
or USA (depending on the age group). A big problem was created when our
team, playing in the PeeWee Tier II (B) bracket won the championship,
one to zip!
Normally, if the Region Champs opt not to go to finals, the second place
team must go. In this case the first place team was ineligible to
advance because of differences in age groupings not only between PeeWee
boys and girls but between PeeWee players in Canada and the US. Also a
factor was that body checking was not allowed in any game in which our
girls played. The second place team decided not to go. As a result our
teams will never be allowed to participate again!
The nasty part of all this was the statements made by some of the
parents and coach of the second place team. Basically, those boys were
told that if they couldn't beat girls, they didn't deserve to advance.
Keep in mind that our region MUST advance a team, and because of this,
didn't!!! The coach claimed that the very presence of a girls team
prevented proper qualification of a winner and runner up and as a result
he was not obligated to advance his team! If the coach had been my
son's coach, I'd have done everything in my power to have the ashes of
his coaching certificate in a coffee can on my mantle! We all know that
under any other circumstance this coach would have been tickled pink to
travel his team to the finals.
Gender discrimination is so limiting...
Keep up the faith...
Lyle
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:24:36 -0800
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Re:Manon
Message-ID:
I just wanted to reply on a little part of this message. Of course the person
didn't expect to become roomates with her!!!! But Manon could have at least made
eye contact and said Hi. She didn't have to be that rude. I can see why she
would be sick of people shoving things at her who wouldn't. But she should have
expected that during her short time of fame. I was not there and did not see
this take place but this is my opinion.
Nina
<UP, just signed it and waited for the next person to shove something
>at her.>>
>
>Did you expect to become roomates with her or something? So, she didn't LOOK
>at you; Try, just TRY to put yourself in her position. People are "shoving"
>things at you to sign... You can't possibly have a "one on one" conversation
>with all of them.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:03:42 +0000
From: Lea and Robert Sanford
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Fitting gloves to small hands
Message-ID:
Diane,
> I have a few questions: has anyone purposly bought gloves that
> were bigger than their hand and worn like biking gloves or something underneath
> to make them fit so they could have the better made gloves...
I wear batting gloves under my gloves to help *bulk-up* my refined
female hands. It works well because I have really long fingers and have
to buy gloves based on length and then swim around in them. The batting
gloves are great -- washable, comforable, etc. I have doubts, however,
that you could overcome both bulk and length in a glove that is too
big. I still have almost no mobility in my goves (they are not quite
three years old) -- they just don't fit close enough (even with the
batting gloves) for me to really break them in. I think that this
problem would be further compounded by your desire for higher quality.
best of luck finding what you want....
Lea
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:06:55 -0500
From: email@hidden (William Cumming (Deerfield Academy))
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
Message-ID:
>"I am not talking about when a kid goes to a Prep school to get an
>education and play hockey too."
>
>Boys programs have been recruiting Nationally for ages... Girls
>programs are now doing it frequently as well. Visit:
>
>http://www.iconn.net/elaydon/bears.htm
>
>and browse a little farther to "About the Conneticut Polar Bears" to get
>a little perspective of player movement and prep schools. The story
>doesn't really say they recruit, but, with the quality of prep schools
>in the area, a lot of programs loose quality student athletes to this
>program and others like it! The parents always get the final say!
>
The Polar Bears web page gives an incorrect impression that the Prep schools
in the area are looking for players to play for them and the Bears. This is
confined to two or three schools. Most of the Girls who play for the Bears
and attend prep school live locally and/or have been playing for the Bears
for a while and before they went to prep school.
The option not mentioned is the opportunity to play for the prep school. I
coach at such a school and we have the luxury of practicing for an hour and
three quarters every day, except game days and Sundays(when there is stick
time) from the end of November through March. We walk from class to the rink
and studies receive more emphasis than hockey.
Many of the girls who play for the school are on USA hockey teams back in
their local district and they play with them at vacation periods. It is not
the norm to go to prep school from well outside the area to play for the
Bears except at two or three schools. Many NEPSAC schools, we are one, will
not allow boarding students to participate in outside athletics on defined
school days. For us this is every day but Sunday. Our academic demands are
such that most students need Sunday for schoolwork.
Finally, the level of play at many of the prep schools is superior to the
girls teams at all but the very top level. Check the rosters of the major
college teams and there are a significant number of prep schools listed.
--
William G. Cumming Voice: (413)774-1448
Deerfield Academy FAX: (413)772-1100
Deerfield, MA 01342 email: email@hidden
or email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:38:36 -0800
From: Lynn Witkowski
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: recruiting to beef up teams for playoffs
Message-ID:
HARRIS, zharris wrote:
>
> As the mid-season fast approaches most youth travel teams in the United
> States are thinking towards Regionals and Nationals.
> My question to you is: In the U.S., what do you think about recruiting out
> of state for players to beef up one's team so as to compete in Regionals
> and Nationals on a youth level?
> *********
> My view, you ask?> To tell you the truth I don't agree with forming "state" teams > and/or recruiting from outside ones' state/area for players just to get a team
> strong enough to play for Regionals and Nationals. I think both methods
> ruin the development of girls' programs and the growth of girls'/women's
> ice hockey.
I agree...
> In fact I'd like USA Hockey to make a stand on this so that (like in
> Canada) you can't recruit outside your state/area.
Don't bet on it. Right now the Ontario Women's Hockey Association is
busy selecting a team to compete at the Midget Nationals. These are
held every 2 years. They send invitations to all competitive players in
the province (2,000 girls between 14 and 17 yrs) and for a fee (approx
$100 for every camp, they get to try out and be evaluated by the coaches
for the under 17 team. Once the team is selected, they have a practice
camp over several days, then they go and compete wherever the Nationals
are held. This year they are in Summerside, Prince Edward Island (I
think). These girls will leave their regular teams to play, and it costs
them somewhere around $1000.00 to do it. The try out camps were full to
capacity, so obviously there is a lot of interest. I really think that
it should be the top team at the Provincials that gets to attend the
Nationals. Right now, if you win the Provincials thats it, season's
over!
As far as recruiting goes (whether legal or illegal ie: tampering), if
whoever is recruiting can afford it, they will get what they want. There
are rules, but it seems that few people follow them. There is a big case
right now in Ontario about player movement and residency rules. The
Metro Toronto Hockey League is in the midst of a lot of problems, and it
involves many players. It appears that this whole thing will result in
redefining boundaries, so that in the end, kids can play anywhere they
want. In my opionion, the little leagues will crumble. They just wont be
able to attract and keep the talented players.
There's my 2 cents. :>
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:30:51 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Fitting gloves to small hands
Message-ID:
Diane:
I have noticed that -- not by any plan, but by coincidence -- at least a
third of the women on my team and on a team I regularly practice with wear
Koho gloves. I do myself and I have very long, very thin hands. I don't know
the gloves' model, but they're cloth and are marked "Pro Teck Thumb", and the
number on the wrist is 233 or 234 (234 is a bit larger; I accidentally
grabbed one of each from the bin so I'm 233 left and 234 right; I didn't even
notice it until about nine months after I bought them). They are quite
comfortable and if you buy the type that has an elastic wrist grommet instead
of laced, your wrist won't slide into and get snared in the grommet.
Good luck
Margaret
Brooklyn Blades
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:46:18 -0800
From: Lynn Witkowski
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Fitting gloves to small hands
Message-ID:
Try Easton Air gloves. They fit more snugly because the have a cushioned
air bag built into the glove over the wrist. As far as I know these are
the only gloves to have this air bag.
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:12:56 -0800
From: "Tom Chan"
To:
Subject: European Minor Female Teams
Message-ID:
My daughter plays on an under-18 all female team in the
Greater Vancouver Area in British Columbia, Canada.
The team she is currently playing for has fairly skilled players
and currently lead the League in number of games won. Further,
in the past they have been a dominating factor amongst most
female teams in the Province.
Although this years team is weak compared to previous teams
they have a great potential for the future as many of the girls have
many years of experience playing. The Association the team
belongs to has been in existance for approx. 25 years so there is
a well established program for female hockey development.
I have asked the question and received a positive response with
respect to me investigating whether or not there are sufficient
young under-18/19 female teams in Europe to make a tour
in the Spring of 1998 for either this team or a representative
team made up of skilled and interested players & parents.
Could any of our overseas subscribers provide me with direct
responses to what the current situation is with Minor female
teams in Europe and if there is a reciprical interest for
these teams to participate in such a tour by a Minor female
team from Canada.
Any other suggestions or recommendations welcomed.
Tom Chan
Secretary - Surrey Female Hockey Association
e-mail address: email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:00:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Mannon
Message-ID:
I just thought I'd put my 2 cents in also. I can believe what Mannon did - I
have seen it before myself. But to look on the brighter side of things, I met
Jeremy Roenick of the Phoenix Coyotes (then of the Chicago Blackhawks) only 6
months ago and he was really charming. I was at the end of a very long line of
autograph seekers and he still took the time to look at me, have a small
conversation with me, and actually come to the other side of the table when I
asked for his picture. Some athletic stars have the personality to actually put
up with the thousands of people wanting to meet them and get their autographs -
others don't. Mannon seems to be one that doesn't. Or she could have been
having some off days.
Just thought I'd share a glimmer of hope that all athletes are not like Mannon
is.
Diane
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 415
*********************************