Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 413
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fitting gloves to small hands
by email@hidden
2) Re: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 412
by email@hidden (Marc Inglis)
3) Frustrations with the guys
by Eric Benson
4)
by "jason "
5) Re:Manon
by email@hidden (MISS CAROLYN R SIMON)
6) Fitting gloves to small hands
by email@hidden (MISS CAROLYN R SIMON)
7) Hockey Schools
by Peter
8) 'Edge', Blades in the Times
by email@hidden
9) Admin: New Mailing lists, network problems, and futures....
by Chuq Von Rospach
10) Re[2]: Equipment modifications
by Jan de Regt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:01:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Cc: email@hidden
Subject: Fitting gloves to small hands
Message-ID:
I have a problem that I am hoping someone will be able to give me some
advice on. I am supposed to be wearing a 13" glove (my gloves I have now are too
small). I was shopping around for a new pair and found a really nice pair of
Winwell Pro 9's and Itech HG32's. Unfortunately, the salesman, who looked them
up in the catalog for me, said they only come in a 15" glove, which is what I
tried on. The problem is, since I am supposed to wear 13" gloves, only the
junior sizes come that small, but they are not made as well or padded as well as
the adult gloves. I have a few questions: has anyone purposly bought gloves that
were bigger than their hand and worn like biking gloves or something underneath
to make them fit so they could have the better made gloves, or has anyone found
any really nice gloves, padded and made just like the adult gloves, that come in
sizes smaller than 15"?
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Diane
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:27:43 -0800 (PST)
From: email@hidden (Marc Inglis)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 412
Message-ID:
> WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 412
>
>Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Re: Mothers of Sons vs. Mothers of daughters!
> by "Heather Gray"
> 2) Re: Frustrations in playing with men
> by email@hidden
> 3) Big news for universities!
> by Kelly Connelly
> 4) Re: Mothers of Sons vs. Mothers of daughters!
> by Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
> 5) Re:Manon
> by email@hidden (Laurie Solgon)
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: 14 Dec 1996 16:38:03 -0000
>From: "Heather Gray"
>To:
>Subject: Re: Mothers of Sons vs. Mothers of daughters!
>Message-ID:
>
> I think it is more like Mothers of sons vs. Fathers of sons... I'm the only
>girl on my team, and I have noticed that the mothers of the sons are more
>'catty' than the fathers. Fathers will ignore me, they will encourage their
>sons to dislike me, but at the time when I least expect it, one of those
>fathers will put his cockiness aside, and say, "Hey, you played a good game".
>The mothers I encounter say Ra Ra for their son and probably didn't watch the
>game anyhow, but are unhappy when they LOST! ; say, "You go girl, I wish I had
>that much courage to go play with those boys" ; or else they wonder why I'm not
>figure skating with their DAUGHTER!
>
> I have one thing to say, I saw this on a t-shirt in a catalog, and I
>practically live by it: I WOULD RATHER HAVE PLAYED HOCKEY AND LOST THAN FIGURE
>SKATED AND WON THE GOLD MEDAL IN THE OLYMPICS!
>
>I've said my bit,
>Heather
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:07:38 -0500
>From: email@hidden
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Frustrations in playing with men
>Message-ID:
>
>I play on a team with men, in fact I am the only women on the team and one of
>the few women in the league. What really puzzles me is the fighting that
>goes on to the point were the team will lose because of constant power plays.
> I could understand it if someone was purposely trying to injure you, but 9
>times out of 10, the 'hit', 'slash', etc was not meant to hurt, but the
>player on the receiving end goes ballistic. Then it's compounded by the
>player calling the ref names etc. Seems to me the team should come first and
>if you want to get even, then score lot's of goals (or step outside). It just
>must be 'a guy thing'. I much prefer playing on an all women's team, they
>play smarter.
>
>Meg in Chicago
>Ice Rats (guys) and Phantoms (women)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 12:04:31 +0000
>From: Kelly Connelly
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Big news for universities!
>Message-ID:
>
>I just learned that Canadian university women's hockey will have a
>national championship...to launch in March 1998. At present 13
>universities fund women's hockey programs, but this latest development
>will encourage more intramural teams to move up to the intercollegiate
>level across Canada.
>
>A national championship will no doubt raise the profile of women's
>hockey in universities. This is great news!
>
>Kelly Connelly
>Managing Editor, Canada
>Women's Hockey magazine
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 00:05:53 -0400
>From: Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Mothers of Sons vs. Mothers of daughters!
>Message-ID:
>
>> I think it is more like Mothers of sons vs. Fathers of sons... I'm the only
>>girl on my team, and I have noticed that the mothers of the sons are more
>>'catty' than the fathers. Fathers will ignore me, they will encourage their
>>sons to dislike me, but at the time when I least expect it, one of those
>>fathers will put his cockiness aside, and say, "Hey, you played a good game".
>>The mothers I encounter say Ra Ra for their son and probably didn't watch the
>>game anyhow, but are unhappy when they LOST! ; say, "You go girl, I wish I had
>>that much courage to go play with those boys" ; or else they wonder why
>>I'm not
>>figure skating with their DAUGHTER!
>>
>> I have one thing to say, I saw this on a t-shirt in a catalog, and I
>>practically live by it: I WOULD RATHER HAVE PLAYED HOCKEY AND LOST THAN FIGURE
>>SKATED AND WON THE GOLD MEDAL IN THE OLYMPICS!
>>
>Heather,
>Our experience has been totally different. My 9 and 10 year old daughters
>both play, and people could not be nicer or more supportive. If I miss a
>game, I get a blow by blow account of the game. Often, my girls will come
>home and say that so and so's mom or dad helped her, or said something nice
>or was really great. My figure skating daughter does not say that. The
>one who quit skating occasionally will tell stories about parents. One pro
>even told me that it was a miracle that the oldest one medalled in a
>competition. But I digress. But we also belong to one of the few private
>clubs left. People live in the same neighborhood and the kids are often in
>school together. IF we don't work together, we sink. The kids and
>families are brought together to play by proximity, not the new rink with
>this year's hot coach. It upsets me to hear the work CATTY still used in
>the same breath as mother of team mate. You would think that we were
>beyond that. As far as parents encouraging their kids to dislike others,
>it makes my blood run cold. I feel very lucky that in our club, we wipe up
>each other's kids cuts, put cold packs on their bruises, and yell and
>scream at each play. If you try that, its infectious and makes each game
>better. Doesn't matter the gender of the player. Let's face it, our kids
>are not going to the NHL, so lets support them equally, male and female,
>and give them the positive feelings hockey is there for.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 23:15:37 -0700 (MST)
>From: email@hidden (Laurie Solgon)
>To: email@hidden,
>Subject: Re:Manon
>Message-ID:
>
>Manon Rheaume has joined the Reno Renegades. I posted a note a few weeks
>ago that Reno had bought her contract. Reno and Alaska of the WCHL played a
>game tonight in Tucson on neutral ice and she was suited up but didn't play.
>After the game, the kids that stayed got to rent skates and skate with the
>players. She always had some cute little one skating beside her as she
>signed an autograph for them. I love the way she is accepted, especially
>because she is a women and had made it with her talent and natural ability.
>Not too many of the male players were asked for their autographs. She may
>be a novelty, but I hope instead she's just the beginning.
>
>
>Laurie Solgon
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 412
>*********************************
>
>Laurie,
Its not only Manon that get the look of that she is God like from our
daughters.
Here in Vancouver Danielle Dube plays for the VooDoo and my seven year old
daughter Claire things she is great. We were on the elevator after a game last
summer and she was on it and my daugter kept saying, with eyes wide open,
"that's the goalie,dad!". Its people like these that encourage girls to
play hockey and we need more of them.
Marc Inglis
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:04:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Benson
To: email@hidden
Subject: Frustrations with the guys
Message-ID:
> Meg in Chicago said:
>
> I play on a team with men, in fact I am the only women on the team and one of
> the few women in the league. What really puzzles me is the fighting that
> goes on to the point were the team will lose because of constant power plays.
> I could understand it if someone was purposely trying to injure you, but 9
> times out of 10, the 'hit', 'slash', etc was not meant to hurt, but the
> player on the receiving end goes ballistic. Then it's compounded by the
The thing that gets me is when someone gets ticked off at a retalatory
hit / slash / etc... it's like, don't get pissed off when you started
it. But then, the whole idea of retalatory hits is questoinable. If you
simply take everything - which is the sporting thing to do - then you get
taken advantage of. If you hit back, it's not good sportsmanship.
> player calling the ref names etc. Seems to me the team should come first and
> if you want to get even, then score lot's of goals (or step outside). It just
> must be 'a guy thing'. I much prefer playing on an all women's team, they
> play smarter.
IMHO, in the women's games I've seen, the women were more honest in their
evaluation of their skill level and what they could and could not do.
Guys will consistantly overestimate what they can do, for example, take
10 minute shifts when they are obviously coasting. Another example I've
seen too many times is a slow defenseman jumping up on a plan, only to
get caught out of position and not be able to skate fast enough to help
out. In contrast, I thought the women played much better positionally
and didn't try to rely on "raw skill."
I guess the counter argument is that if you never push the limit, you
aren't going to improve.
-Eric
and occasionally frustrated guy...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:31:59 -0500
From: "jason "
To:
Message-ID:
RE Coaching
>From Dave Barrett
Lyle Anderson my email address jbarrett is correct i use my sons name.Today
we have a game against
senior womens AA Team this is our third time we meet this season and so far
we won 1 and lost 1
this is just frendly competition and hopefully the girls will be up for the
game.
Our biggest problem where we live is the competition, my team do not play
in a league even though
most of the girls play High School but the play in 6 different schools and
that sort of creates a
problem for me. Each school teaches different and i myself coach a system
that the schools do not
use and 5 of the schools do not even coach a system, so as you can see when
i get the girls on the
weekends it's like starting all over, another problem is to play against
girls in there own division the
nearest team is 4 hours drive so our best competition is playing against
boys and that gets pretty
rough at times because you how boys can be we beat one team 8-4 a couple of
weeks ago and man
you should off heard the mothers it just made me sick to my stomach to
listen to them,
then last week we played a different boys team and i only had 9 skaters
with 4 mins.remaining in the
game their coach pulled the goalie when we were serving a pentaly to tie us
4-4 and he didn't put his goalie
back in even though the game was tie he really wanted to win but the score
stayed 4-4 at the end of
the game when i shook his hand i said the next time i play you i will have
a full bench and he then said
he was not interested in playing us again and again you should of heard the
mothers.I think it's time
for those women to smarten up and stop complaining against their own sex
and be proud that the
females are beating the males at their own game get with ladies mind you
not all women are like that
but there is some ont there and i found them.
Have a good day
Dave Barrett coaching Girls Hockey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:36:46, -0500
From: email@hidden (MISS CAROLYN R SIMON)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re:Manon
Message-ID:
I just read Laurie Solgon's message about Manon Rheaume. I know a lot
of people on this mailing list probably respect her and admire her,
but i am not one of those people.
She used to play roller hockey for the New Jersey Rockin Rollers. I
had season tickets for two years, which meant we got certain benefits
like skating with the players and hanging out with them after the
games. Now, of course everyone was going to mob Manon, because she
was the closest thing to a celebrity on the team. But she was, in
short, a bitch about everything. She would take a back way around the
fans where we would go meet her so she wouldn't have to sign anything.
Sometimes she didn't even SHOW UP on her own "Manon Rheaume Practice
Night." I met her twice in two years...one was because I had to wait
on line, and I handed her my hat or whatever and she didn't even LOOK
UP, just signed it and waited for the next person to shove something
at her. The other time I had to get personnell from the team to take
me DOWNSTAIRS into the lockerrooms and hunt her down. She was really
mad and told him never to do that again.
Basically what I'm getting at here is that I know if I ever were
even close to playing for any kind of team where someone would want
my autograph, I would be way more gracious than her. I know that
she's a decent ice hockey player but her role in minor league teams
and roller hockey teams is a publicity stint. I lost all respect for
her when I met her. Brushing aside little kids who look up to you is
no way to gain respect. You better believe that when anyone mentions
that she was the 1st woman in the NHL, I am quick to point out that
not only did she play really badly, but it was only a preseason game
and didn't mean anything anyway. You will notice that she's on the
Reno Renegades or whatever, and the only way she will ever get
farther than that is if some other team is itching for a fresh set of
fans. Sorry if this offended anyone, but it's the way I believe...
-Carolyn #21
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:42:37, -0500
From: email@hidden (MISS CAROLYN R SIMON)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Fitting gloves to small hands
Message-ID:
Diane,
I know Eastons can come in 14" because I had a pair but they were
too big on me. NEVER order gloves from catalogs. Inquire to see if
Eastons run even smaller. I think they do.
-Carolyn #21
New Jersey Selects
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:12:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter
To:
Subject: Hockey Schools
Message-ID:
I was looking for the best hockey schools in the Quebec-Ontario region. Any
suggestions?
Courtney Douglass
25# Gaspesie Les Iles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 19:24:35 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: 'Edge', Blades in the Times
Message-ID:
Apologies to the list in advance for the length.
This is from a sports editorial in The New York Times, Sunday, Dec. 15, 'That
Little Sister Keeps Getting Bigger' by sports columnist Robert Lipsyte.
(Incidentally, if you can get the Times in your area, it's worth buying this
edition if you can find it; a third of the page is devoted to Lipsyte's
column and an accompanying piece on women in managerial-coaching positions by
Anna Seaton Huntington, a member of the Mighty Mary America's Cup crew).
>From Lipsyte:
"... We can look ahead to the fascinating prospect of women's ice hockey
making its Olympic debut in 1998. While it may be overshadowed by the "Dream
Team" aspect of National Hockey League players in the men's game, it will be
hard to give the old-fashioned toleration but no respect to a little sister
who can deke you out, then slap it in.
"A quick, smart grasp of all this is in a new book, "On the Edge,"
published by Toronto's Second Story Press. The writers, Elizabeth Etue and
Megan K. Williams, grew up watching brothers play on backyard ponds (unless
their bodies were needed in net) and sitting in the rec room with Dad during
"Hockey Night in Canada."
"Both were athletic, but neither really played hockey until adulthood
when they discovered that the game could 'transform ordinary individuals into
winged warriors.'
"They transmit that found passion in an engrossing history of the
100-year-old women's game as it has been suddenly 'discovered' in Canada, not
unlike women's basketball in the United States. The authors have sharp
commentary on the old-boy network and the power of the NHL to dictate sports
coverage to the detriment of most other men's sports, and all women's sports.
..."
Congratulations! Meanwhile, same said Times is doing an article for The City
section, another Sunday section available only in NYC, I believe, about the
Brooklyn Blades. They were all over our game last night against SkyRink's new
women's team, the Chelsea Comets, which sadly we lost 1-0 (I won't go into
the question of whether it was fair for the Comets to bring in an experienced
male goalie...). Will let you know when it's published in case you can get a
local edition of the paper. Also, one of our players is working on a feature
on us for the upcoming flagship edition of a new Conde Nast magazine on
women's sports. I can't remember the name, but will pass details along when
publication nears.
You would think we're famous! Maybe one day...
Cheers
Margaret
Brooklyn Blades
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 20:35:14 -0800
From: Chuq Von Rospach
To: email@hidden, email@hidden,
Subject: Admin: New Mailing lists, network problems, and futures....
Message-ID:
Well, folks... Laurie and I are happy to announce two new mailing lists
have opened up for business:
First is OAK-ATHLETICS, for fans of the American League's Oakland
Athletics. This list has been adopted after it lost it's old home, so
please do me a favor and make the 60 new neighbors feel welcome and
join the fun.
Second is HOCKEY-PLAYERS, which joins hockey-coaches, hockey-referees,
and women-in-hockey as a general place for people to discuss playing
hockey and being hockey players. We decided to create this list
because, frankly, we were talking in the car the other day and we asked
each other why we didn't create it when we created the coaches and refs
lists. Why? because we didn't think about it, of course... So that
oversight's fixed.
We've also had a request for a list to be used to advertise and ask
about hockey tourneys. Personally, I think something like this is
better suited to a web site because the data needs to hang around
instead of disappear the way email messages do (if you aren't looking
when someone posts to a mail list, you never see it...). I'm
investigating this, and will get one or the other up as soon as
feasible.
Finally, I want to warn people that we had some minor network problems
today, caused by a power outage at my ISP that glitched out a couple of
routers. This caused the search database on the
page to go off-line (again) and
might have caused all of plaidworks to be missing intermittently. Our
ISP has fixed the problem, so we should be back to full speed. You
should also be seeing shorter delays in messages being delivered. A
couple of weeks ago, I found a new way to configure the server that
significantly sped up our ability to shove mail out the door -- where
it used to take us until Midnight to clear out the backlog from an
average, 325-350 message day, we're now consistently processing 425-450
messages with everything delivered by 9PM, and during the prime e-mail
times, delays are down by an hour or two. We recently had the biggest
day in plaidworks history: a whopping 540 messages delivered to the
various lists, and we still had smaller backlogs than 300 message days
with the old server setup. This is encouraging, because it means we
have some extra capacity to play with again, and messages should be
timlier for everyone, especially during the main usage times (Monday to
Friday, about 10AM to 4PM, although since we have a strong East Coast
membership, it really starts about 4AM and goes until 9PM here on the
West coast; later if there are late hockey games.... If you're waking
up to mail in the morning, you're not dreaming... grin).
I've made a decision to dump our current mailing list server, the one
we all know and loathe, in favor of Majordomo. That project will be
part of a larger re-design of our entire e-mail environment, from
servers and web site to documentation and archives, to start in
January. I'm working on a web site to describe this project (called
Plaidworks:TNG), and it should be available for comment after the first
of the year. I'm also confident that i'll finally be cutting the hours
I work for Apple after the first, so there'll be more time to work on
this stuff -- I appreciate people's patience as we've consistently been
days (right now, TEN..guess what I'm doing tonight?) behind in
answering mail and some of these technology upgrades are taking
seemingly forever. I hope that'll improve in January.
As always, if you have questions, comments, suggestions or problems,
drop myself or Laurie a note, and we'll get back to you (although it
might take a day or two... sigh).
chuq
--
Chuq Von Rospach (email@hidden) Software Gnome
Apple Server Marketing Webmaster
Plaidworks Consulting (email@hidden)
( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net)
I got no name or number/ I just hand out the lumber.
But if I get a chance to play/ I'm going to show 'em.
-- Stick Boy (The Hanson Brothers, SUDDEN DEATH)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Dec 1996 07:26:32 -0500
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: Equipment modifications
Just this weekend I saw Girls' size small pelvic protectors in the D-R
brand - they were VERY narrow, and would surely fit your daughters.
They seem narrower than the Cooper brand, so it might be worth trying
to find. Once they're on, it may just be a matter of shifting them
forwards or backwards to get them to where your daughters won't even
know they're wearing them!
jan
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Equipment modifications
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 12/12/96 8:22 PM
Gary Goldberg and/or Debbie Minden wrote:
>
> I have modified my pelvic
> >protector (actually, I have modified every piece of
> >equipment I own!), but have added more padding (I'm a
> >puckstopper), but if it's too large, open it up, cut it
> >down, and file down the edges. If it's not comfortable,
> >you won't wear it, and that could be a mistake.
>
> The pelvic protector is a real bugaboo for me. I have little girls -9 and
> 10 - and there are none that fit them. I have been on the phone to
> manufacturers and haunted hockey stores and can't find one for a thin 4'6"
> or a chubby 4'6". Any suggestions? The only thing that looked ok was a
> boys goalie cup, but they said it felt awful. Help.
> Debbie
Try the shorts that have the pocket for the cup. They have velcro tabs
for the socks. My son wears this and he isn't very big. I think they
have a style for females and the cup is shaped differently. There are
all types of jill staps that are now being sold. I don't know where you
live, but here in Canada (Northern Ontario) they are not hard to find.
Let me know if I can help.
Lynn
email email@hidden
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 413
*********************************